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Chris-a Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2005 Posts: 42 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 4:24 pm Post subject: Going up in altitude and gas fumes?? |
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Yesterday my wife and I did a fun trip around some of the cascade mountains and experienced something like we've never have before. Our 77' 2.0l Fuel Injected started to stink something awful like gas fumes going up the steep uphills. We've never had any problems before and didn't yesterday after we finished climbing. We can run 65 no problem on the freeway with no stink at all, but durring those climbs yesterday it was horrible. I did a visual inspection and couldn't see any fuel leekage anywhere.
My only thought was maybe the fuel tank wasn't able to release the pressure as we climbed, could that be? The smell dominated under the bed area and not so much in the engine compartment.
thanks
Chris |
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Randy in Maine Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2003 Posts: 34890 Location: The Beach
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Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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Well if you have not replaced all of your fuel lines in the past couple of years, it is time. Don't forget to have a good hard look at the evaporative canister and the gas cap.
Past time acutally.
Been here?
http://www.ratwell.com/technical/FuelHoses.html
For the record, even a cheapskate like me bought the new sweedish hose clamps - $65 for 50 of them at my front door from Ultimate garage.
Like staying at the Hilton compared to a Motel 6, if you know what I mean. |
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ratwell Samba Member
Joined: April 26, 2003 Posts: 8717 Location: Victoria, BC
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Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:42 pm Post subject: Re: Going up in altitude and gas fumes?? |
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Chris-a wrote: |
My only thought was maybe the fuel tank wasn't able to release the pressure as we climbed, could that be? The smell dominated under the bed area and not so much in the engine compartment. |
My guess is that you have a leak and the inclines caused it to drip out. Perhaps one of the fuel breather line hoses behind the spare tire well. _________________ '78 Westfalia CDN
'76 Doublecab
Read the Baywindow FAQ |
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seanj Samba Member
Joined: June 11, 2005 Posts: 54
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Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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could also be fuel filler hose in which case good luck finding one, or the sending unit gasket. my '73 seeped from the filler hose and leaked from the sender gasket if you filled it up all the way. |
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Vamstad Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2007 Posts: 223 Location: So Cal
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Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 11:28 am Post subject: |
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Chris-a,
My bus does the exact same thing...were you able to locate the problem? Mine only smells when climbing mountains as well. _________________ Fear is the mind killer.
1979 Federal Westfalia
2.0 FI |
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calebmelvin Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2006 Posts: 3140 Location: Seattle, WA
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Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 11:43 am Post subject: |
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Vamstad wrote: |
Chris-a,
My bus does the exact same thing...were you able to locate the problem? Mine only smells when climbing mountains as well. |
What year bus?
Have you checked all the breather lines?
How about the fuel lines?
Think about all of the lines that run from the tank rearward, any of those could be leaking at an incline... _________________ Caleb
'68 Tagged Manx | My Wanted Ads
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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Vamstad Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2007 Posts: 223 Location: So Cal
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Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 11:58 am Post subject: |
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79 FI Federal
Fuel lines are good. I have visually checked the breather lines and replaced a few.
About the only thing that I have not really looked at is the gas fill neck.
However, I feel that it must be fine as I think that a problem here would be noticeable if I take some hard corners...but, I just smell is going up LONG inclines (e.g. road to big bear, road into Joshua Tree. For some reason, I think that altitude must have something to do with it. For example, the street to my house is steep, yet short, and I never get the smell. _________________ Fear is the mind killer.
1979 Federal Westfalia
2.0 FI |
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BusterBrown Samba Member
Joined: December 15, 2009 Posts: 1397 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: |
but, I just smell is going up LONG inclines |
Anyone have anything to add to this thread? Vamstad didn't come back with the answer, if he found it. I ask because this is happening to our 78 FI. I don't see gas leaking anywhere, nor smell it, except when we start up steep inclines. Then it's very smell of gas. No visual signs of leaks though. I'm befuddled. _________________ 1978 Sage Green Westfalia (Happy Trails, SOLD)
1977 Transporter
Life is short. Can I have some of yours? |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 6:46 am Post subject: |
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How complete and functional is your vapor system and charcoal canister? Have you by any chance disconnected the EEC valve on the aircleaner because it was leaking and effecting the vacuum advance? Ever tested the EEC for function? _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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BusterBrown Samba Member
Joined: December 15, 2009 Posts: 1397 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 7:13 am Post subject: |
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Quote: |
How complete and functional is your vapor system and charcoal canister? Have you by any chance disconnected the EEC valve on the aircleaner because it was leaking and effecting the vacuum advance? Ever tested the EEC for function? |
I'll investigate these things busdaddy. Thank you for your suggestions. Now to try and find out what an EEC valve is...
"Forever in the dark." Buster _________________ 1978 Sage Green Westfalia (Happy Trails, SOLD)
1977 Transporter
Life is short. Can I have some of yours? |
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Randy in Maine Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2003 Posts: 34890 Location: The Beach
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Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 7:15 am Post subject: |
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The EEC valve is inside the air cleaner and is connected to engine vacuum the small vacuum line here.....
Will it hold a vacuum when you pump it up with a hand vacuum pump? |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 7:31 am Post subject: |
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Also test it by gently blowing into the large hose as you apply vacuum to the small one, it should allow flow when the little one gets vacuum. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
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Vamstad Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2007 Posts: 223 Location: So Cal
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Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 9:16 am Post subject: |
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I have just replaced my filler neck tube (old one was full of exterior cracks...nothing that would have caused a leak though) and will report here the next time that I go up a long incline again.
I do plan to test my canister like bus daddy suggested. I have never done anything to the canister other than make sure that it is connected properly.
Do these canisters go bad? Does the charcoal get used up and no longer function? If so, I imagine that I still would not smell the fumes as they would just get sucked back into the engine, correct? _________________ Fear is the mind killer.
1979 Federal Westfalia
2.0 FI |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21474 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 10:29 am Post subject: |
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Vamstad wrote: |
I have just replaced my filler neck tube (old one was full of exterior cracks...nothing that would have caused a leak though) and will report here the next time that I go up a long incline again.
I do plan to test my canister like bus daddy suggested. I have never done anything to the canister other than make sure that it is connected properly.
Do these canisters go bad? Does the charcoal get used up and no longer function? If so, I imagine that I still would not smell the fumes as they would just get sucked back into the engine, correct? |
Visually inspecting lines....is usually how you miss old cracked one. Visual inspection will tell you nothing unless the line is actually torn. You cannot see through the cloth covering.
If your 3mm vent lines are older than 5-7 years...they are shot. You can only tell if they leak by pouring liquid through them. Ray |
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calebmelvin Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2006 Posts: 3140 Location: Seattle, WA
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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Couple of things could be going on. If the tank was full the tilt could have caused gasoline to leak out any of the tank vapor lines that were cracked or broken.. There is also an o-ring around the fuel sender and they crack with age so gasoline can leak out there.
Oil and grease can get extra hot on a climb and really stink too. The extra heat in a climb can set free grease and oil that hasn't had heat in a long time.
You didn't mention any oil drips but during a hill or grade climb that is the highest pressures the cylinders will often see. If the breather valve is bad, pressure can build up behind the diaphragm and close it, forcing oil out around seals which then heats up and stinks.
Last hills and March imply cold. The heater may have been open drawing in any of the fumes above which make it all the worse, especially if there are any oil drips that get inside the heater boxes. I would bet on a fuel vapor line being broken though, perhaps the one under the spare tire as that is the one everyone misses (including me). _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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BusterBrown Samba Member
Joined: December 15, 2009 Posts: 1397 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: |
I would bet on a fuel vapor line being broken though, perhaps the one under the spare tire as that is the one everyone misses (including me). |
I suspect you're right with this. We live about 10 minutes away from a favorite hiking trail. The incline is about 5 minutes into this 10 minute drive. The bus is cold when we start off, then as soon as we hit the uphill bit, we start smelling gas. No doubt about it, it's gas. Engine's not even warm yet. No oil leaks; pretty clean in there. This bus is in quite good condition, and although I know they can be deceiving, all fuel lines look darn good. And I have looked around everywhere back there after the drive looking for visual leaks, and there are none to be seen. Very annoying. So yes, maybe this weekend I'll take time to check all those vapor/breather lines.
Thanks all for sharing your thoughts on this. I'll report back when I think I've found the culprit, for future generations to benefit as well.
_________________ 1978 Sage Green Westfalia (Happy Trails, SOLD)
1977 Transporter
Life is short. Can I have some of yours? |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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BusterBrown wrote: |
all fuel lines look darn good. |
Well thars yer problem! Unless you have physically replaced them in the last year or 2 you just can't guarantee they are good.
Where's the yellow line hanging infront of the battery in the pic go? That may have alot to do with your issues as well. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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BusterBrown Samba Member
Joined: December 15, 2009 Posts: 1397 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:41 am Post subject: |
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Quote: |
Where's the yellow line hanging infront of the battery in the pic go? That may have alot to do with your issues as well.
busdaddy |
busdaddy; Something not look right to you here? If you look closely, you'll see the yellow line swings down, then back up & into the air-cleaner housing. On Ratwell's site, he shows a '78 FI as having a charcoal canister in the rear corner behing the battery, next to the tail light. My '78 does not. Being the new owner, I'm still sorting this thing out. Is my set-up supposed to look like this?:
Thanks for being my sensei (teacher) here. I've joined the Samba "Dojo", as an apprentice "VW Aikido" student, willing to learn the art of self defense of my dearly beloved baywindow. _________________ 1978 Sage Green Westfalia (Happy Trails, SOLD)
1977 Transporter
Life is short. Can I have some of yours? |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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That could very well be your problem, the canister is indeed missing and should look like the lower pic. How does that dangling line change from small diameter to the large size where it connects to the EEC valve? Are the hoses just stuffed inside each other?
The way it is plumbed now is similar to the non smog Euro setups but they have a proper reducer fitting to connect the hoses and AFAIK don't use an EEC valve. If the EEC is not opening pressure (and even small amounts of fuel) in the vapor system is going to find another way out and that's what you are smelling. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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