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toomanyveedubs Samba Member
Joined: November 26, 2007 Posts: 596 Location: Great White North
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Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:46 am Post subject: |
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how much lift can be had from these?
is there a height difference at 0PSI,50PSI,100PSI,150PSI? |
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j_dirge Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2007 Posts: 4641 Location: Twain Harte, CA
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Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:02 am Post subject: |
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"restores ride hieght"
"provides up to 1100lbs carrying capacity"
Gabriel and Monroe advertises exactly what TK is saying you should not do. _________________ -89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.
-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5
danfromsyr wrote: |
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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Terry Kay Banned
Joined: June 22, 2003 Posts: 13331
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Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:06 am Post subject: |
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They were designed as a towing assist, back in the late 50's / early 60's.
They were called overload shocks.
It all depends on how much your going to carry, and how much air your going to be blowing in them.
The orginal idea was to suppliment the springs capacity--not take the place of them.
Air bags for this job are a better idea. _________________ T.K. |
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j_dirge Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2007 Posts: 4641 Location: Twain Harte, CA
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Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:59 am Post subject: |
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Terry Kay wrote: |
The orginal idea was to suppliment the springs capacity--not take the place of them.. |
Shades of gray.
Here's the link..
Just so the agrument does not have to play out again.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=351169&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 _________________ -89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.
-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5
danfromsyr wrote: |
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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240Gordy Samba Member
Joined: May 15, 2008 Posts: 2354 Location: Vancouver, BC
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Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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chimivee wrote: |
Terry Kay wrote: |
The biggest bonus with the Gabriel air shock is the air chamber is separate from the shock unit. |
Oooh, I see. So it's basically like a built-in air bag. Cool!
Still interested in ride reports/comparisons... |
but the "bag" inside the shock is only acting on a few square inches of the shock tube. _________________ Tencentlife said,
"So, now that you know what you're doing, go to town."
2010 GOLF TRENDLINE 2.5
1985 GL now with more! a 2.1L
H&R SPORT(RED) Springs FRONT , SLAM SPECIALTIES RE6 AIRBAGS REAR |
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mikls63rag Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2006 Posts: 555 Location: Antioch, CA
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Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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Great idea! My van tends to sag a bit, but nothing to worry about. Ive used air shocks in my bugs in the past and when all loaded down with the family, roof rack and pick-nick stuff, pump them up a bit till you aren't rubbing the fenders any more! lol Works great most cars-vans-trucks. I'd get them again for the van this time, camping season is getting here soon!
The ride is about the same when pumped up while loaded and unloaded, Ill let the air out and bring it down to stock ride height. But that's bug talk! Should be about the same for the Vanagons, its the same principle. _________________ Michael
63' Rag
65' Bug
13' Passat S |
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Jteerlink Samba Member
Joined: February 18, 2007 Posts: 167
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Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with TK. As my coils are fine, I am running 16" wheels and this small boost also helps tire clearance. But I wouldn't pressurize them much higher than 100psi as I also worry about the shock mounts handling that much stress.
In order to extend the shocks, initial pressure upon installation should be at 15psi. At 30-35psi (min. recommended operating pressure) I would say the ride height is unchanged from stock. At 45-50psi the height is just leveled off anything higher is your own operational preference. Mine are at 60psi putting height at 30.5" to the lip of the wheel well with a slight rake, which I like.
Also, as you can see I am not sporting a rack with kayaks or towing anything. Just looking to replace the shocks, ride handling and level off the rear with the occasional heavy load of camping gear, without resorting to the "cutting board" quick fix. |
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OilNBolts Samba Member
Joined: May 12, 2007 Posts: 438 Location: Kentucky
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Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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I put a set of Gabriels, Ultras I think, on one of my buses a couple of years ago. They were a huge improvement over the shot KYBs. Also from Autozone, lifetime warranty, and inexpensive. _________________ Current fleet: Vanagons, two '88 GLs and an 89 Bluestar. Beetles, '63, '64, '72 convertible. Plus, four Subarus and three Prius. Too many cars. |
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Terry Kay Banned
Joined: June 22, 2003 Posts: 13331
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Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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<<Oooh, I see. So it's basically like a built-in air bag. Cool!>>
<<but the "bag" inside the shock is only acting on a few square inches of the shock tube.>>
The air chamber is pretty good size considering the size of the shock.
But yea--the Gabriel Air Shock is an air bag & a separate shock unit all in one package--
It's a better shock than the AC delco & Monroe where the air bags are exposed, & the shock & the air bag are kinda in one piece.
As the shock goes up, the ride gets harder.
The only caveat is be sure not to treat the shocks a Mack Truck spring.
It offer's very little in supporting big sprung weight.
I mean they level you out with a trailer on the back end OK.
But don't think you've got a new HD set of adjustable springs back there
You'll snap that top shock bolt off like a bolt cutter's cut them.
I've got a brand new pair here in a box--20 minutes old.
The shock rod is bent when the top shock mount snapped, and the shock bounced off of the pavment a little at 70 mph.
Junk.
I was a little heavy in the ass end.
Just a little warning to the group. _________________ T.K. |
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Jteerlink Samba Member
Joined: February 18, 2007 Posts: 167
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Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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True. I had a friend who re-welded his mounts twice on his Camaro drag car after using air-pressurized shocks. But there are some considerable differences in force with our application.
Overall, I am pleased with these shocks, but if you decide to go with this setup make sure you do the following:
1) Regardless of your load, replace/upgrade your shock mounting bolts with new high grade, high tensile bolts. Always a good idea when replacing anything.
2) Ensure your air supply lines are protected from the elements and heat from engine/muffler. I have since sleeved them in left over rubber hose just to be sure they don't melt since they are only 4" away from the exhaust. |
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Loosenut893 Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 28 Location: Vermont
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Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 6:37 am Post subject: |
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Sorry to drag this one back up but I'm trying to decide what to use on my '85 Westy that has the dragging butt syndrom. Would these work better or the NAPA/Monroe coil over (part #58595) that has been used as well? Thanks. _________________ 1985 "MAE" Westy
2010 Subaru Outback Premium
1995 BMW R1100 GS
2013 Mini Paceman |
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lowdowndub Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2003 Posts: 416
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Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 9:15 am Post subject: |
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I just put a set on my 85 westy this weekend. Seem to work fine. Went in very easy and installing the air lines and valve was simple. Didn't think about using higher quality bolts. I'll have to switch those out. Otherwise very happy with them for $80. Running about 50 psi in mine. |
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Jteerlink Samba Member
Joined: February 18, 2007 Posts: 167
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Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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Loosenut893 wrote: |
Sorry to drag this one back up but I'm trying to decide what to use on my '85 Westy that has the dragging butt syndrom. Would these work better or the NAPA/Monroe coil over (part #58595) that has been used as well? Thanks. |
I also looked at installing those, but the Gabriels were cheaper and I figured that no matter how much she was loaded up, being able to make micro adjustments with the air valve to ensure a leveled ride was more useful, not to mention trick. I think you'll be fine if you go with the coil overs since many who have used the coil overs are satisfied with the ride/handling and height. I can't say what the ride comparison would be though. However, I can say that it has been a couple of weeks + one camping trip and both me and my wallet are still smiling.
In order to be right on in leveling height, check the lengths of the new shocks against the OEM. They may be hard to find, search Monroe's website. Look for an extended length and compressed or loaded length. As an educated guess, IMO that if the new rear shock lengths are 1"- 1.5" longer than the stock compressed lengths, you're golden. |
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VisPacem Samba Member
Joined: July 15, 2007 Posts: 1143 Location: Las Vegas
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Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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Hi
This air shocks solution sounds great. Can they be used on a 2WD (Wolfsburg) and are they available for the front and is it a good idea for the front ?
Thanks _________________ LG aka VisPacemPB, *The* party Pooper
No Regrets (Nothing to do with Vanagons) |
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Terry Kay Banned
Joined: June 22, 2003 Posts: 13331
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Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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No can do for front shock application. _________________ T.K. |
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floggingmolly Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2007 Posts: 1106 Location: San Diego, CA
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Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 10:47 am Post subject: |
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Loosenut893 wrote: |
Sorry to drag this one back up but I'm trying to decide what to use on my '85 Westy that has the dragging butt syndrom. Would these work better or the NAPA/Monroe coil over (part #58595) that has been used as well? Thanks. |
I have the 58595s and they work OK. The one's on this topic seem like a good idea, I'd go that way if I needed new ones, which I don't. The Monroes are doing just fine and I have no sag most of the time (seems sometimes the rear sags more than others, and weight has no effect). The Monroes seems a little rough, but not bad. I think my springs are original, so that probably has something to do with it. _________________ '85 Wolfsburg Weekender |
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j_dirge Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2007 Posts: 4641 Location: Twain Harte, CA
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Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 11:29 am Post subject: |
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floggingmolly wrote: |
Loosenut893 wrote: |
Sorry to drag this one back up but I'm trying to decide what to use on my '85 Westy that has the dragging butt syndrom. Would these work better or the NAPA/Monroe coil over (part #58595) that has been used as well? Thanks. |
I have the 58595s and they work OK. |
I have the 58595s, 1.5yrs, and I'd say they work pretty well.
Varying loads.. up to very big.
I orginally installed them after AirLift airbags failed one too many times... and with the orignal springs. The Monroes were MUCH better than airlift airbags. MUCH better. Hands down.. Better.
I have since installed new springs (VC/Syncro.org).. and the Monroes still provded a bit some more firmness in the rear.. riding about 1/4"-3/8" higher than the front (also with the new springs).
I'd give the Monroes a thumbs up.
Install em.. check the mount brackets occasionally, check the bolts..
..and forget about them. No adjusting.
But these Gabriels are intriguing and I look forward to seeing some reports after some miles and varying loads.
I'd be very tempted to try them. _________________ -89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.
-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5
danfromsyr wrote: |
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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Last edited by j_dirge on Thu May 06, 2010 8:39 am; edited 1 time in total |
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K58 Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2006 Posts: 1173 Location: Santa Barbara
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Loosenut893 Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 28 Location: Vermont
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Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 4:10 am Post subject: |
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Based on the feedback I'm going to try the Gabriels. Given the adjustability and cost its worth the try and if they prove not to be all that I was hoping for I don't feel like I've wasted a bunch of money. Thanks. _________________ 1985 "MAE" Westy
2010 Subaru Outback Premium
1995 BMW R1100 GS
2013 Mini Paceman |
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tripod808 Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2010 Posts: 65 Location: Hilo
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Posted: Sat May 08, 2010 1:48 am Post subject: |
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Just bought a pair of these off of Amazon.
My plan is to weld some reinforcement onto the upper shock mount so that I can use the full 25-200psi range of the shock. |
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