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Gabriel Hijacker Shocks in Rear
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now here is the best idea yet.

Don't get the proper ride height first with a new set of springs--then compliment them with a pair of overload air shocks.
Oh No--

Beef up the shock mounts to support the worn out, & bagged out springs with a new pair of air loaded shocks.

A superior engineering plan of attack.
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tripod808
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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Terry Kay wrote:
Now here is the best idea yet.

Don't get the proper ride height first with a new set of springs--then compliment them with a pair of overload air shocks.
Oh No--

Beef up the shock mounts to support the worn out, & bagged out springs with a new pair of air loaded shocks.

A superior engineering plan of attack.


That's not my whole plan, just the plan relevant to the topic, "gabriel hi-jacker shocks in the rear."

I'm trying to convince this guy I know to sell me some rear syncro springs for the rear, in the front I'm going moog 5660. Don't know what type of front shocks I'll run yet.

I'm sorry, I'll get in the habit of revealing all of my plans to everyone before I post so that I can have you guys perceive me as competent (friendly sarcasm).
Laughing
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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tripod808 wrote:
Terry Kay wrote:
Now here is the best idea yet.

Don't get the proper ride height first with a new set of springs--then compliment them with a pair of overload air shocks.
Oh No--

Beef up the shock mounts to support the worn out, & bagged out springs with a new pair of air loaded shocks.

A superior engineering plan of attack.


That's not my whole plan, just the plan relevant to the topic, "gabriel hi-jacker shocks in the rear."

I'm trying to convince this guy I know to sell me some rear syncro springs for the rear, in the front I'm going moog 5660. Don't know what type of front shocks I'll run yet.

I'm sorry, I'll get in the habit of revealing all of my plans to everyone before I post so that I can have you guys perceive me as competent (friendly sarcasm).
Laughing

Oh... don't mind him.

TK's spinnin' in his no spin zone. And from what I've read in my time here, he hardly speaks for this forum.


Your plan is likely gonna be just fine.. But I'd suggest you not bother with any attempts to modify either upper or lower shock mount. At most get new bolts.
As long as niether mount has been compromised from rust or abuse, they are plenty stout to handle a modest suspension "assist" from a shock.
I mean fer crissakes! Look at what some of the Syncro guys are doing.



Install the new shock.. test them out at what ever air pressure you want..
(I am guessing that mid-max pressure is gonna make for a real unplesant ride anyway)
Just don't go jumping your rig.. or hauling a ton of crap off the back.

And when you get your springs.. you'll have your springs, too.


TK is all wet on this "concern" of his.
I honestly think he visits this site just to work out some of his superiority complex issues. Laughing
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danfromsyr wrote:
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nope--your wrong.
TK speaks from 45 years of mechanical experience.

TK has been down this crazy road a time or two and found out the long way around the block.

first you get the vehicle--any vehicle not just a VW --make the suspension right.
Then add on the accesories.

My Dirge--your looking through some real smokey rose colored glasses, and are not really sure what your talking about.

Whatever that might be, your going at it ass backwards like the rest of the folks-- just throwing a band aide at the Van
first--

When that blows up in your face, then approach it correctly.

In a matter of fact a bunch of older vehicles didn't have any shocks-
How in the hell would you for one jack up the ass end of your ride if it didn't have any shock mounts?

I know--add screw in spring rocks or rubber spacer's--ala JC Whitney.

"New Bolts"
What kind of "New bolts?
8 or 10 metric--??

The upper mounting reinforcement thought is a pretty good one actually--
Wouldn't hurt anything, and probably keep the 30 year old vehicle around for awhile longer.
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Last edited by Terry Kay on Sat May 08, 2010 10:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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tripod808
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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a regular '85 GL, not a westy, so the weight issue is not at the same importance as a westy owner, but I do agree that updating the suspension early on your build is a great idea.

I'm not exactly throwing band aid fixs at it, I'm just following a tight budget and I'm buying parts as I see the prices that I want to on certain components.
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The usual scenario here in Vanagonland for some reason is everyone that jumps into these older antiques is trying to keep a vehicle 100% totally operable, road worthy, and up to current vehicle specs,and they are all on a tight budget.

The biggest problem is what they are trying to do is in some way, shape, or form, is perform a rotissery resto with zero bucks.

Nothing wrong with that.
It's human nature to get by with the least spent.

But in this case they ( not all, just a crazy few here in this post, and in a few other's) are attempting to by-pass the original 20--30 year old worn out suspension system with an accessory that wasn't designed to carry the whole load.

Gabriel will tell you that too--you don't have to take my word for it.

Call Gabriel , and ask for the customer service department.
See what they tell you.

You don't even have to run Syncro Springs.
Get some new Westy Springs.
They are rated heavier than the stock GL springs.

Or--( this is really too simple) take a ride to yur local spring shop and have a pair of dual rate, progressively wound coil springs made up.
They'll hold a load, plus give your butt a kick up in the air a hair if you'd like.
Whatever length you want (almost) can be manufactured.

Then, if you want the bonus plan of having air assist rear shocks, the ass end of your Van will be at the right ride height--and now you can have some adjustment.

One small warning--and it isn't all bad---remember they are cheap.

The Gabriel's shock will not give your van the ride a set of Bilsteins or Koni's will, nor will they last as long.

The air bag will last for maybe 5 years , but the shock portion of the unit will be fagged out long before the Bilstein or Koni.

You have to remember that the shock is separate from the air chamber in this shock, and it is a oil unit--not gas over hydraulic.

The soothsayer's of glory and the short, quick solution's never antied up and told you the down side.
The Wizards of Ride Height never told you the all of the facts.

I like the Gabriels for the money--and have run them in plenty of vehicles--along with a proper spring for the job.
And the shocks life is anywhere between 2-4 years depending on how you run them.
There is no warrantee for the shocks normal life --just the air bag only.

Good Luck in your search for the right suspension update.

Possibly Citroen air over hydraulic air bags to replace your springs all the way around would be the answer--they are infinatly adustable.
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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My experience with Gabriel air shocks is that they are very cheaply made and they don't hold very well over time. You will be refilling from your bumper valve more and more often which is why I got an Airlift compressor mounted under the hood. It became a real pita to find a gas station with air or one that didn't charge $1 to use it. Rolling Eyes
Just an FYI
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The shocks themsleves are far superior to Monroe's or Delco's.

They used to have brass fittings on the air lines at the shocks, and the brass T-fitting with the schraeder valve.

Since they went to the plastic fittings for the air lines they do leak, but it's halfway cureable.

Double up on the tiny O-rings at the fittings and it'll slow the leaking down to a minimum so you can get a couple of months outa the air fill.
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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm with TK here.

"Shocks" are for damping spring movement. Springs are for supporting the weight of the vehicle.

In reality it's not that simple but the rock crawlers we've built and had developed using the Fox Air shocks/springs just don't do it all as well as a custom wound spring and a nice shock absorber.

Conversely, in my world of bicycle suspension, the company's (mainly SRAM/Rock Shox and Fox) are engineering out the "hammock" and the initial stiction that plagued the air suspension of years past. Motorcycles are benefiting and advancing this stuff as well.

You can combine a shock and a spring but to do it well isn't cheap. A rear shock/spring for our new F-Bomb DH bike is over $400 retail. A set of forks, in the Air flavor retails for over $1200...

A $68 set of air shocks may help alleviate a symptom, but they won't cure the cause.

For an occasional boost for hauling the odd load, they're a great, cost effective solution over stiffer springs that would ride harsh when unloaded, or the cost of firestone bags.

RJ
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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tripod808 wrote:
I have a regular '85 GL, not a westy, so the weight issue is not at the same importance as a westy owner, but I do agree that updating the suspension early on your build is a great idea.

I'm not exactly throwing band aid fixs at it, I'm just following a tight budget and I'm buying parts as I see the prices that I want to on certain components.

There is no point in discussing this with TK.

He has his ideas and he knows that what you are planning and what I did is "wrong".. even though, the guy has no freakin idea what I have planned or am doing.
He just knows better.

Save yourself the irritation.

Follow through with your ideas and pay attention to what you are doing..
A pair of $150 Monroe Sensatracs or possibly this $85 Gabrial air shocks can buy you a yr or two as you work out your much more labor intensive/expensive long range plans.

You are "modifying" a 20+yr olds vehicle and that means you take responsibility for when a mod does not work out, too. Right?
Report back on the results.. so that others can learn.


I'd also look into the longevity issues with these shocks.. as noted by K58.
I've seen a mixed bag on that.
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-89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.

-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5

danfromsyr wrote:
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tozovr wrote:
I'm with TK here.

"Shocks" are for damping spring movement. Springs are for supporting the weight of the vehicle.

In reality it's not that simple but..

No its not that simple.. Not at all..Take a look at what has been developed for offroad and onroad use since the first Gabrial air shock was introduced. There are all manners of combinations of shock, spring, and airbag being used today.

The Sensatrac, as an example, is spring and shock.
The Gabrial is air bag and shock.
Air lift is airbag working inside a spring and any shock of choice.

I don't necessarily "disagree" with TK's elementary point. But his is an elementary point. As in "Duh!"..
Most people on this site can sort that issue out for themselves.

What I do disagree with.. is his forgone conclusion that using these shocks (or similar) is taking a short cut that defies common sense and practical engineering just to save some pennies.
And I mostly disagree with his blowhard condescending tone that suggests his audience is too dim to grasp basic concepts. His obvious disdain for the Vanagon community defies logic in that he is also attempting to sell product to us... Laughing


This load-assist shock issue can be broken down to three main points.

1. Do the Gabrial Air shocks work and do they last?
2. Is the Vanagon an appropriate application for this shock?
(Gabrial seems to think so)
3. And are they cost effective?


Beyond that TK is going into custom modifications that are 3, 4 or even 10+x the expense.. His is not even in the same discussion anymore.


I have used load-assist shocks (SensaTracs) on my Westy and in other applications.. I have loaded up my Westy well beyond rating.. And there was no failure.. After one yr's use I dismantled for new springs and the only signs of excessive wear was the lower spring pads having been worn thru. That was not a result of using an load-assist shock.
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-89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.

-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5

danfromsyr wrote:
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 9:37 am    Post subject: Re: Gabriel Hijacker Shocks in Rear Reply with quote

<<My '87 Wolfsburg is in need of rear shocks and I found a pair of air adjustable Gabriel Hijackers at Autozone for a fair price. I am trying to avoid the Vanagon rear end sag that eventually will be even more pronounced one she is fully loaded with gear and a bike rack on the hatch.>>

Your wrong.

Here is the very first post on this subject, and has been the primary thought on many Vanagon sagging butt posts.

Please tale a look at almost every post I added.

"First get the Vans ride level with the appropriate spring, then add the extra load levaling accessory device.
If that is condecending--well--- you've been doing some severe reading between the lines.

The answer to any suspension problem first is always the price, then the action/ reaction here.

If as suggested in the first post the shocks are the first solution, and all of the "OH Yea's--that's a good deal, and it'll get my rear end back up in the air and level" the though is by-passing the primary suspension unit and going right to an accessory secondary afterthought to correct an obvious worn out spring problem.

I can't see any other motive here, other than to save a buck, and get the back end level.

If you think I'm wrong--sorry about that.

Air shocks, load leveler spring assisted shocks, even add on air bags is doing only one thing--
being a band side to a worn out suspension spring.

Then you managed to slide off into 4x4 land as a diversionary tactic.

First they have the right spring for the job intended, then the add the proper gas/ hydraulic rebounding dampener for the application.

You are trying to justify putting the cart in front of the horse here--add a heavy duty spring dampening devise to carry the load firts--and not even take into consideration the springs are beat to death.

Nuts.

Take a look real good at what I've been implicating here.

"Get the springs of your choice replaced first--then add the proper accessory dampening device for your application"

Gabriel never has made a spring replacement application statement.
Call them--tell them your springs are worn out and you want the air shocks to do the suspension work -see what they have to say about it.
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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At this point Im going to add my nickles worth of knowledge and say that "doing the hokey-pokey IS really what its all about" Wink
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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

j_dirge wrote:
tozovr wrote:
I'm with TK here.

"Shocks" are for damping spring movement. Springs are for supporting the weight of the vehicle.

In reality it's not that simple but..

No its not that simple.. Not at all..Take a look at what has been developed for offroad and onroad use since the first Gabrial air shock was introduced. There are all manners of combinations of shock, spring, and airbag being used today.

The Sensatrac, as an example, is spring and shock.
The Gabrial is air bag and shock.
Air lift is airbag working inside a spring and any shock of choice.

I don't necessarily "disagree" with TK's elementary point. But his is an elementary point. As in "Duh!"..
Most people on this site can sort that issue out for themselves.

What I do disagree with.. is his forgone conclusion that using these shocks (or similar) is taking a short cut that defies common sense and practical engineering just to save some pennies.
And I mostly disagree with his blowhard condescending tone that suggests his audience is too dim to grasp basic concepts. His obvious disdain for the Vanagon community defies logic in that he is also attempting to sell product to us... Laughing


This load-assist shock issue can be broken down to three main points.

1. Do the Gabrial Air shocks work and do they last?
2. Is the Vanagon an appropriate application for this shock?
(Gabrial seems to think so)
3. And are they cost effective?


Beyond that TK is going into custom modifications that are 3, 4 or even 10+x the expense.. His is not even in the same discussion anymore.


I have used load-assist shocks (SensaTracs) on my Westy and in other applications.. I have loaded up my Westy well beyond rating.. And there was no failure.. After one yr's use I dismantled for new springs and the only signs of excessive wear was the lower spring pads having been worn thru. That was not a result of using an load-assist shock.


You can't Just quote and disagree with that first statement and not include. I'm not one to speak in blurbs or write in them...the post needs to be looked at holistically. Of course there is the fact that I'm occasionally vague as well Smile


Maybe I wasn't clear though. I'm not talking about TKs bedside manner or every bit of tech he drops on us. More so that, If you're running an air shock to help with the occasional load, good on ya, as that is the design. If you're running these shocks to "cure" a permanent sag, you're a penny rich and a pound foolish. Treat the disease, not the symptom.

If your disease is that every time you freight the Vanagon down for a trip, or tow, it sags, then use the Air lift shocks. If you're everyday driver sags in the rear all day every day, because of worn springs, get new springs.
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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Terry Kay wrote:


You don't even have to run Syncro Springs.
Get some new Westy Springs.
They are rated heavier than the stock GL springs.

Or--( this is really too simple) take a ride to yur local spring shop and have a pair of dual rate, progressively wound coil springs made up.
They'll hold a load, plus give your butt a kick up in the air a hair if you'd like.


That's a good idea, I think stock westy rears will be a step up for me.
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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

j_dirge wrote:
tripod808 wrote:
I have a regular '85 GL, not a westy, so the weight issue is not at the same importance as a westy owner, but I do agree that updating the suspension early on your build is a great idea.

I'm not exactly throwing band aid fixs at it, I'm just following a tight budget and I'm buying parts as I see the prices that I want to on certain components.

There is no point in discussing this with TK.

He has his ideas and he knows that what you are planning and what I did is "wrong".. even though, the guy has no freakin idea what I have planned or am doing.
He just knows better.

Save yourself the irritation.

Follow through with your ideas and pay attention to what you are doing..
A pair of $150 Monroe Sensatracs or possibly this $85 Gabrial air shocks can buy you a yr or two as you work out your much more labor intensive/expensive long range plans.

You are "modifying" a 20+yr olds vehicle and that means you take responsibility for when a mod does not work out, too. Right?
Report back on the results.. so that others can learn.


I'd also look into the longevity issues with these shocks.. as noted by K58.
I've seen a mixed bag on that.


Yeah man, I couldn't have said it any better.
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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, back on track here, maybe.

My 85 Westy with Carat springs has the appropriate (for Carat springs) slightly tail-high stance. The reason I'm adding the air shocks is for the very occasional need to compensate for the weight of a trailer, or the weight of my 300 lb motorcycle that I'm going to be toting on a trailer hitch mount, much like Ben's mount here:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



So, here's my question. When running these shocks without an extra load, I assume I run these shocks at 0 psi, right?
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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good question;

If your not in any need to be supplimenting the springs weight carrying capacity you should run at least maybe 20 lbs of air in them so the bag doen't fold & wear on itself inside the steel cover.

It would be a good idea to keep some air in them--
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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="tozovr"]
j_dirge wrote:
tozovr wrote:

<snip>
"Shocks" are for damping spring movement. Springs are for supporting the weight of the vehicle.

In reality it's not that simple but..
<snip>

<snip>
No its not that simple.. Not at all...
<snip>

No worries. I am mostly in agreement with you and shoud have snipped out any reference to TK.

I should have written, "Yes, It is not that simple." Which would have clarified that I agree with your "no" statement.
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-89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.

-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5

danfromsyr wrote:
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2020 4:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Gabriel Hijacker Shocks in Rear Reply with quote

It has been a decade since this thread was updated, so I thought I'd offer my own experience for anyone considering air-assist in their Vanagon. I have a 1989 Westy with stock springs and no visible "sag" in the rear. My motivation for installing these was to level the vehicle when loaded with gear, which is basically what they were designed for.

The install could not have been easier. I recommend you purchase grade 8 shock bolts since you will have them out anyway. You will need four 12mmX65mm bolts with 1.50 thread pitch. You will also want two 12mm nuts to match for the lower bolts and two lock washers. I jacked the van up, placed jack stands under the frame, removed the wheel and then used a floor jack under the trailing arm to take the load off and make the shock bolts easy to remove.

The air lines are self-explanatory and easy to route. I drilled a hole under the license plate for the inflation fitting, but you can put the fitting in any number of other places. The plastic fittings and air line work well and hold air just fine.

Some helpful notes:
1. These are Gabriel Hijacker #49215.
2. The bushings that come with the shock are correct for the Vanagon and the shocks literally bolt-on w/o modification.
3. I run the recommended 25 lb minimum to ensure the bladders are expanded and see no material change in the height of the rear end.
4. As others have described, the ride quality is a bit harsher, but it isn't a big change.
5. I agree that these are not meant as a substitute for worn-out springs and would always suggest you replace worn springs at the same time you do the shocks. Both can be done with a pair of jack stands, a floor jack and a metric socket set.
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