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BugMan114
Samba Member
Joined: March 22, 2007
Posts: 3744
Location: Ellenwood, GA
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 Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 7:39 pm Post subject: 4 Barrel NON-TURBO set-up? |
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Hi yall. it seems when it comes to carbs for bigger engines, it seems the only real options are a set of dual carbs (dells, IDF's, IDA's, etc), but then you have the complexity of the dual carbs, and sync'ing, and all that bull. and i've seen AJ's Turbo prep 4 barrel's but they are for turbo's. i was wondering if anyone makes a kit that you can use a 4 barrel holley on a bug, with out turbo. or will this just have to be a custom thing? thanks in advance
-Mike
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1974 Super Beetle: Custom resto in progress
1972 Super Beetle: Daily Driver
1971 Std. Beetle w/ 1929 Mercedes Benz Gazelle kit
1960 Baja Bug
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Sand Rail- FUBAR
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Why the hell do they call it a gland nut. its obviously a big fat bolt!!! |
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perrib
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Joined: September 14, 2004
Posts: 3402
Location: Chandler, Az
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| Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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Two dual 44s would walk all over a singe 4 barrel. The 4 barrel does not have the tuneability of the Webers. 48 IDAs kicked butt so hard over dual quads that the IDAs were outlawed from most circle tracks.
Last edited by perrib on Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:28 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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fastinradford
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Joined: June 08, 2008
Posts: 2895
Location: Athens Ohio
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| Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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making a 4bbl get decent mileage/performance will be more complicated than dual carbs.
sorry.
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95 jetta 5spd, (first waterpumper vw)
the nice 74 Ghia, (of course the fiance drives that one).
My mk1 jetta 1.6d
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DarthWeber
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Joined: November 24, 2007
Posts: 7543
Location: Whittier,CA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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You'd have to custom fab a manifold. Reason 4bbls never caught on is because port on port carburation can't be beat for tune-ability and response. Even with real good manifold heating fuel dropping out of suspension would be a big problem to overcome with a 4bbl carb.
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| Mitey62 wrote: |
| Swapped the Compufire for a Bosch blue and some points I had sitting around, started 1st crank. Took her out for a drive, pulls harder, more RPM, and runs smoother. I think I'll be sticking with points from now on. |
| RockCrusher wrote: |
JB weld the case halves....that'll keep the fretting to a minimum.  |
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jamestwo
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Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 2203
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| Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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there are 4bbl manifolds available.
The most popular was the "johnny's Four play"
Trick is to use a small 4bbl and a big VW engine.
No personal experience, but some have made them work.
here is a post about someone who tried it
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=84486
EDIT another thread
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=93681&highlight=
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Last edited by jamestwo on Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:39 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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DarthWeber
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Joined: November 24, 2007
Posts: 7543
Location: Whittier,CA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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| jamestwo wrote: |
| the "johnny's Four play" |
From Johnny's Speed and Chrome?
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| Mitey62 wrote: |
| Swapped the Compufire for a Bosch blue and some points I had sitting around, started 1st crank. Took her out for a drive, pulls harder, more RPM, and runs smoother. I think I'll be sticking with points from now on. |
| RockCrusher wrote: |
| JB weld the case halves....that'll keep the fretting to a minimum. |
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jamestwo
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Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 2203
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| Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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Not sure who made it. Didn't last long.
It was an open pendulum manifold. means a single cylinder could draw off all four barrels , which made for low velocity and bad idle. On top end it was restricted by the stock end casting which was used.
If I was making, I would make it with 1 and 3 sharing two barrels and 4 and 2 sharing two barrels. I think it would work with a small 390 cfm carb. if you had manifold heat.
I did meet one guy who had one on his drag car that liked it, it worked enough for him, but car only ran 14's.
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hEY, lOOK, i'M WRONG HALF THE TIME, AND THE OTHER HALF i'M NOT SURE WHAT THE HECK i'M TALKING ABOUT. MY POST ARE FOR MY OWN ENTERTAINMENT VALUE ONLY. |
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DarthWeber
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Joined: November 24, 2007
Posts: 7543
Location: Whittier,CA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| jamestwo wrote: |
Not sure who made it. Didn't last long.
It was an open plenum manifold. means a single cylinder could draw off all four barrels , which made for low velocity and bad idle. On top end it was restricted by the stock end casting which was used.
If I was making, I would make it with 1 and 3 sharing two barrels and 4 and 2 sharing two barrels. I think it would work with a small 390 cfm carb. if you had manifold heat.
I did meet one guy who had one on his drag car that liked it, it worked enough for him, but car only ran 14's. |
But I knew what you meant. 
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| Mitey62 wrote: |
| Swapped the Compufire for a Bosch blue and some points I had sitting around, started 1st crank. Took her out for a drive, pulls harder, more RPM, and runs smoother. I think I'll be sticking with points from now on. |
| RockCrusher wrote: |
| JB weld the case halves....that'll keep the fretting to a minimum. |
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jamestwo
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Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 2203
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| Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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Not sure what you mean....I don't think Johnny's speed and chrome made it.
They may have, I know Kymco was selling them.
There contact info didn't have anything to do with Johnny's speed and chrome
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=149717
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hEY, lOOK, i'M WRONG HALF THE TIME, AND THE OTHER HALF i'M NOT SURE WHAT THE HECK i'M TALKING ABOUT. MY POST ARE FOR MY OWN ENTERTAINMENT VALUE ONLY. |
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Matthew
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Joined: January 29, 2004
Posts: 1760
Location: Eastern Tennessee
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| Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:16 am Post subject: |
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Look at the words in bold: You said open pendulum and he changed it to open plenum.
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jamestwo
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Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 2203
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| Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:21 am Post subject: |
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oh, lol
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hEY, lOOK, i'M WRONG HALF THE TIME, AND THE OTHER HALF i'M NOT SURE WHAT THE HECK i'M TALKING ABOUT. MY POST ARE FOR MY OWN ENTERTAINMENT VALUE ONLY. |
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vwracerdave
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Joined: November 11, 2004
Posts: 15308
Location: Deep in the 405
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| Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 9:14 am Post subject: |
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Johnny's Speed and Chrome is no longer in buisness. Johnnies 4-Play was a different company.
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mrquin
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Joined: March 21, 2010
Posts: 110
Location: Green Bay
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| Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:10 am Post subject: |
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For sale if you're looking  |
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Almost Alive
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Joined: October 12, 2009
Posts: 1345
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| Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:59 am Post subject: |
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For sale for a reason isn't it?
I talked to the guy a few years ago. He's still making them though no idea what his info is.
Seemed like a cool idea but I've heard they were all dogs. Very poor MPG's with terrible response along with less HP that a set of dual Webers.
Scared me away from trying it but who knows, maybe someone has figured out how to set them up correctly?
Last I remember a "plug and play" set up with the carb was $700 or so?
Keep in mind I've got NO experience with these... just parroting what I've read. |
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mrquin
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Joined: March 21, 2010
Posts: 110
Location: Green Bay
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| Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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it's very drivable on the roads a little jerky. It idles very good as well but keep in mind it was set up for drag racing. This car would launch so hard I broke my drivers seat  mpg was around 20.
This is also a 600cfm holley so yeah it's over kill and spits fuel out the tail pipes but I'm sure with a smaller holley it would be smoother. |
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Almost Alive
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Joined: October 12, 2009
Posts: 1345
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| Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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| What size engine is it on? |
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mrquin
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Joined: March 21, 2010
Posts: 110
Location: Green Bay
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| Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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| 2180 |
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DarthWeber
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Joined: November 24, 2007
Posts: 7543
Location: Whittier,CA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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| vwracerdave wrote: |
| Johnny's Speed and Chrome is no longer in buisness. Johnnies 4-Play was a different company. |
Yes Dave, Johnny's has been out of business now for 10+ years. I live a couple of miles from where it was. It's a HonDuh dealer now.
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| Mitey62 wrote: |
| Swapped the Compufire for a Bosch blue and some points I had sitting around, started 1st crank. Took her out for a drive, pulls harder, more RPM, and runs smoother. I think I'll be sticking with points from now on. |
| RockCrusher wrote: |
| JB weld the case halves....that'll keep the fretting to a minimum. |
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BugMan114
Samba Member
Joined: March 22, 2007
Posts: 3744
Location: Ellenwood, GA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| mrquin wrote: |
For sale if you're looking |
OK, now thats what i was really looking for. Really killer looking  .
_________________
1974 Super Beetle: Custom resto in progress
1972 Super Beetle: Daily Driver
1971 Std. Beetle w/ 1929 Mercedes Benz Gazelle kit
1960 Baja Bug
1969 Baja Bug
Sand Rail- Homemade
Sand Rail- FUBAR
Aircooled Airheads
Why the hell do they call it a gland nut. its obviously a big fat bolt!!! |
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Matthew
Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2004
Posts: 1760
Location: Eastern Tennessee
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| Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 3:36 am Post subject: |
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| mrquin wrote: |
For sale if you're looking |
To me dellorto or weber carbs, especially 48IDAs are a thing of beauty on a VW. The holley 4 barrel looks out of place and ugly on anything other than a domestic V8 IMHO. Why would anyone want a dog like that on a VW? 
It has already been said that the big plenum setup make the low end response poor and the top end is limited by the size of the factory manifold end castings so essentially you are hanging a big 4 barrel on there for good mid-range power?
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