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epowell
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 4733
Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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 Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2021 6:18 am Post subject: Re: brake line diagram? |
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aha! Cunifer is even more rust resistant than copper?
And then painting it with something would make it last even longer.
So... you sold me  I'll definitely use cunifer.... thanks!
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DanHoug
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Joined: December 05, 2016
Posts: 4773
Location: Bemidji, MN
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| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2021 6:16 am Post subject: Re: brake line diagram? |
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| epowell wrote: |
| DanHoug wrote: |
cunifer is wonderful to work with compared to steel. you can even easily make that little hardline loop for the front brake caliper. |
So CUNIFER is more rust resistant than steel... ?
And can you bend CUNIFER without special tools?
....looks like I need to get cunifer. |
it is the magic of the copper, nickel, and iron formula that make it VERY corrosion resistant, strong, and yet easily formed. the cool thing is that you can bend it with your hands and it is very kink resistant. unlike steel, which relies solely on coatings to prevent corrosion, cunifer itself is resistant. more so than copper which can turn green and erode. great stuff.
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-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
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epowell
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 4733
Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2021 6:06 am Post subject: Re: brake line diagram? |
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| DanHoug wrote: |
cunifer is wonderful to work with compared to steel. you can even easily make that little hardline loop for the front brake caliper. |
So CUNIFER is more rust resistant than steel... ?
And can you bend CUNIFER without special tools?
....looks like I need to get cunifer.
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DanHoug
Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016
Posts: 4773
Location: Bemidji, MN
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| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:34 am Post subject: Re: brake line diagram? |
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| epowell wrote: |
| DanHoug wrote: |
do NOT put copper on!
copper was used pre-WWII and worked for a while. until it didn't. today, pretty much all copper is smelted and rolled in China and does not have the quality of yester-years product. |
aha... OK
But plain copper is still OK for the clutch hydrolic line, no?
So the advantage of CUNIFER over steel is it is more flexible and more resistant to rust, correct? |
copper is fine for the clutch line. far lower pressures. that said, 1/4" cunifer works really well also for the clutch and won't work harden and crack near to the degree copper will. but the consequence of a cracked clutch line is minor compared to a cracked brake line. on my clutch line, not having the flexible plastic line available to me, i made a compliance loop of cunifer to absorb engine rocking. had this been copper i might be less comfortable but again, the consequence is minor.
cunifer is wonderful to work with compared to steel. you can even easily make that little hardline loop for the front brake caliper.
_________________
-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
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epowell
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 4733
Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:30 am Post subject: Re: brake line diagram? |
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| DanHoug wrote: |
do NOT put copper on!
copper was used pre-WWII and worked for a while. until it didn't. today, pretty much all copper is smelted and rolled in China and does not have the quality of yester-years product. |
aha... OK
But plain copper is still OK for the clutch hydrolic line, no?
So the advantage of CUNIFER over steel is it is more flexible and more resistant to rust, correct?
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DanHoug
Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016
Posts: 4773
Location: Bemidji, MN
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| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:58 am Post subject: Re: brake line diagram? |
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| epowell wrote: |
| DanHoug wrote: |
| plain COPPER e.g. refrigeration/water line is absolutely the wrong thing to use as it can rupture under brake pressure. |
My parts guy says the copper/nickle stuff is not available. He can only get plain COPPER or the standard METAL lines.
His opinion is that the plain COPPER is fine. It is a bit more expensive but he says that with copper you can bend it by hand, whereas with the METAL cheaper lines you need a bending tool. |
do NOT put copper on! you're in Vancouver currently, right? NAPA, Canada Tire, Amazon, just about any FLAPS has copper-nickel rolls available.
copper was used pre-WWII and worked for a while. until it didn't. today, pretty much all copper is smelted and rolled in China and does not have the quality of yester-years product.
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-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
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epowell
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 4733
Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:56 am Post subject: Re: brake line diagram? |
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| DanHoug wrote: |
| plain COPPER e.g. refrigeration/water line is absolutely the wrong thing to use as it can rupture under brake pressure. |
My parts guy says the copper/nickle stuff is not available. He can only get plain COPPER or the standard METAL lines.
His opinion is that the plain COPPER is fine. It is a bit more expensive but he says that with copper you can bend it by hand, whereas with the METAL cheaper lines you need a bending tool.
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epowell
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Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 4733
Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2021 7:19 am Post subject: Re: brake line diagram? |
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| 4Gears4Tires wrote: |
| IIRC it's 3/16"/4.75mm line with M10x1.0mm flares. |
THANKS!
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4Gears4Tires
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Joined: October 08, 2018
Posts: 3025
Location: MD
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2021 5:56 am Post subject: Re: brake line diagram? |
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IIRC it's 3/16"/4.75mm line with M10x1.0mm flares.
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'87 Syncro
Ferric Oxyhydroxide Superleggera Edition |
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epowell
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Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 4733
Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2021 5:20 am Post subject: Re: brake line diagram? |
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aha.... I'll confirm this, thanks!
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DanHoug
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Joined: December 05, 2016
Posts: 4773
Location: Bemidji, MN
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2021 5:10 am Post subject: Re: brake line diagram? |
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| epowell wrote: |
I have decided to buy a coil of hard line --- and a flaring tool --- and all the fittings.... and bring them with me to Canada.
My parts guy says that a 10meter coil of COPPER pipe costs about $20USD. That seems a lot cheaper than Vancouver NAPA prices.
From my calculations it seems to me that to replace all BRAKE and CLUTCH lines, for one van, it will require just under 15 meters. Does this sound correct?
Can anyone tell me the size/guage/type of hard line to buy. He recommended COPPER (metal is available) - and said that in Europe the use of COPPER is prohibited. [in B.C. there are no vehicle technical controls so nobody would notice] I suppose COPPER is much more resistant to rust. |
just to be correct, because the difference is life or death, the stuff you want is Copper-Nickel, or cunifer. plain COPPER e.g. refrigeration/water line is absolutely the wrong thing to use as it can rupture under brake pressure.
_________________
-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
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epowell
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 4733
Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:49 am Post subject: Re: brake line diagram? |
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I have decided to buy a coil of hard line --- and a flaring tool --- and all the fittings.... and bring them with me to Canada.
My parts guy says that a 10meter coil of COPPER pipe costs about $20USD. That seems a lot cheaper than Vancouver NAPA prices.
From my calculations it seems to me that to replace all BRAKE and CLUTCH lines, for one van, it will require just under 15 meters. Does this sound correct?
Can anyone tell me the size/guage/type of hard line to buy. He recommended COPPER (metal is available) - and said that in Europe the use of COPPER is prohibited. [in B.C. there are no vehicle technical controls so nobody would notice] I suppose COPPER is much more resistant to rust.
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epowell
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Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 4733
Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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| Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:29 pm Post subject: Re: brake line diagram? |
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| crazyvwvanman wrote: |
I was suggesting you could buy an affordable complete set in Europe to bring with you.
As opposed to having lines made to bring with you.
Mark |
aha! ....might even be cheaper than that to have them made locally. But that link you sent is very reasonable - thanks!
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crazyvwvanman
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Joined: January 28, 2008
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Location: Orbiting San Diego
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| Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:24 pm Post subject: Re: brake line diagram? |
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I was suggesting you could buy an affordable complete set in Europe to bring with you.
As opposed to having lines made to bring with you.
Mark |
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epowell
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Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 4733
Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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| Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:05 pm Post subject: Re: brake line diagram? |
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Thanks Mark.
But the problem is this is for my Vancouver van, and I don't think it is cheap to get the rigid pipe set there.... locally, or online after shipping and Duty.
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crazyvwvanman
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epowell
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Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 4733
Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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| Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 1:10 pm Post subject: Re: brake line diagram? |
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| 4Gears4Tires wrote: |
I dunno if the 2wd are different, but for the Syncro I added 4" of length to each front hard line coming off the junction T. This way when connection to the rubber hose is unbolted from the chassis, there is enough space to move it away from the chassis and space for wrenches.
I ordered one 25' roll of line and that was enough to do the van. However I did not replace the booster to the front junction as that line was in great shape. If you're making lines, I wouldn't be cutting both sides at once. Build it like plumbing, in one direction only! |
Previously I did pretty well with having pieces (both ends cut) made up for me cheaply at the local garage.... BUT I could remove from my van the exact (rusted) piece that needed replacing - so this worked fine.
But I am in Europe now, and planning to replace the brake lines on my other van which is in Canada. I was hoping to get the correct measurements then have the pieces made here in Czech, then bring them to Canada >>> cheaper and easier that way (the garage makes them fast and insanely cheap).
But from what you say it sounds like that might not work so well??? Are not all vans basically laid out the same?
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4Gears4Tires
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Joined: October 08, 2018
Posts: 3025
Location: MD
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| Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 12:57 pm Post subject: Re: brake line diagram? |
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I dunno if the 2wd are different, but for the Syncro I added 4" of length to each front hard line coming off the junction T. This way when connection to the rubber hose is unbolted from the chassis, there is enough space to move it away from the chassis and space for wrenches.
I ordered one 25' roll of line and that was enough to do the van. However I did not replace the booster to the front junction as that line was in great shape. If you're making lines, I wouldn't be cutting both sides at once. Build it like plumbing, in one direction only!
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'87 Syncro
Ferric Oxyhydroxide Superleggera Edition |
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epowell
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Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 4733
Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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| Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 1:20 am Post subject: Re: brake line diagram? |
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Here is that original diagram, but I am skeptical regarding the accuracy of the lengths listed --- can anyone confirm the TRUE LENGTHS.
At the beginning of this thread 2 separate posters posted very different LENGTHS. Can anyone confirm which is correct?
This is what was posted:
60 inches (X3) about 10$ each (pre-flared with connectors)
40 inches (x1) about 7$
30 inches (x2) about 7$
20 inches (x2) about 6$
12 inches (x2) at about 5$
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1. Master cylinder to front tee 1850mm (72.8 inches)
2. Master cylinder to rear brake pressure reducer 2130mm (83.8 inches)
3. Front tee to left brake hose 140mm (5.5 inches)
4. Left front brake hose to left front caliper 350mm (13.8inches)
5. Front tee to right front brake hose 950mm (37.4 inches)
6. Right front brake hose to right front caliper 350mm(13.8inches)
7. Brake pressure reducer to rear tee 2900mm (114.2inches)
8. Rear tee to left rear brake hose 623mm (24.5inches)
9.Rear tee to right rear brake hose 285mm (11.2 inches)
10.Left rear brake hose to left rear wheel cylinder 550mm (21.6 inches)
11.Right rear brake hose to right rear wheel cyl. 550mm (21.6 inches)
1980 thru 85 shows;
3. Front tee to LF hose 500mm
4. LF hose to caliper 120mm, while RF shows as 1100mm! (wrong, both are identical @120mm!)
Which measurements are the correct ones.... I will go out and measure some on my own van but until then please respond, anyone who KNOWS off hand, thanks.
Ed
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Timwhy
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