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1970 vw bug overheating-- oil light coming on..what to do?
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kegankavu
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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 3:16 pm    Post subject: 1970 vw bug overheating-- oil light coming on..what to do? Reply with quote

Hey,
I have a 1970 1600dp. I purchased it back in August. It had a few oil leaks, but ran like a champ (minus the slight clutch shuttering and problems downshifting into 2nd). I took the car to a vw mechanic, along with a list of things that I wanted to be addressed.. We ended up, doing a full tuneup, replaced the clutch and transmission, the belt, exhaust, sending unit, shocks, rebuilt axles, intake manifold boots aand rain gutter..and a few other things that I am sure that I am leaving out. I get the car back, drive it home (15-20 mins) oil light comes on when it reaches idle.. checked the oil (good), drive it around for a bit.. acts like it wants to choke out when at idle. Called my vw guy, told him the problem, took it back..dropped it off. The next day, he took the rain gutter off..I drove it for about a hr, problem comes back. Took it back..called him the next day, he thought that it could be the crankshaft spacing.. pulled the motor, adjusted the spacing and replaced the oil cooler gasket.. Drove it a hour away (in the morning which was cooler) did fine, drove it home (in the evening cooler) oil light came one, went off, motor didn't feel super too hot.. the throttle cable was sticking a little. Called him told him what was going on, he told me to bring her back in. Took her in today after driving her for a hour @ 70-80mph in nearing 85 degree weather (oil light came on for just a min, he adjusted the cable and the carb, so she was running a little more rich... i took off after he told me to "give her hell". Took her onto the hwy for 15mins or so, had to stop by the vets office, to pick up the dog. Oil light came on in the parking lot of the office.. turned her off, picked up the dog, started her up, oil light still on (idle) continued on (mind you he told me to not worry about the light being on) when trying to get out of the parking lot, she wanted to choke out, had to keep the rpms up, got out in traffic (stopped) the choking out problem went away, oil light still on i drive on home (it goes off when i am not idling) got home and the engine was pretty hot, the oil stick was hot to the touch..
Now, here I am, what could be the problem..?? This is my first vw, I am typically a jeep girl.. and am wondering if I made a mistake in buying this car.. more so, I just want to know what in the world it going on and how can I fix it?!
Thanks in advance!
Holly
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dakdak
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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 3:57 pm    Post subject: Re: 1970 vw bug overheating-- oil light coming on..what to d Reply with quote

kegankavu wrote:
Hey,
I have a 1970 1600dp. I purchased it back in August. It had a few oil leaks, but ran like a champ (minus the slight clutch shuttering and problems downshifting into 2nd). I took the car to a vw mechanic, along with a list of things that I wanted to be addressed.. We ended up, doing a full tuneup, replaced the clutch and transmission, the belt, exhaust, sending unit, shocks, rebuilt axles, intake manifold boots aand rain gutter..and a few other things that I am sure that I am leaving out. I get the car back, drive it home (15-20 mins) oil light comes on when it reaches idle.. checked the oil (good), drive it around for a bit.. acts like it wants to choke out when at idle. Called my vw guy, told him the problem, took it back..dropped it off. The next day, he took the rain gutter off..I drove it for about a hr, problem comes back. Took it back..called him the next day, he thought that it could be the crankshaft spacing.. pulled the motor, adjusted the spacing and replaced the oil cooler gasket.. Drove it a hour away (in the morning which was cooler) did fine, drove it home (in the evening cooler) oil light came one, went off, motor didn't feel super too hot.. the throttle cable was sticking a little. Called him told him what was going on, he told me to bring her back in. Took her in today after driving her for a hour @ 70-80mph in nearing 85 degree weather (oil light came on for just a min, he adjusted the cable and the carb, so she was running a little more rich... i took off after he told me to "give her hell". Took her onto the hwy for 15mins or so, had to stop by the vets office, to pick up the dog. Oil light came on in the parking lot of the office.. turned her off, picked up the dog, started her up, oil light still on (idle) continued on (mind you he told me to not worry about the light being on) when trying to get out of the parking lot, she wanted to choke out, had to keep the rpms up, got out in traffic (stopped) the choking out problem went away, oil light still on i drive on home (it goes off when i am not idling) got home and the engine was pretty hot, the oil stick was hot to the touch..
Now, here I am, what could be the problem..?? This is my first vw, I am typically a jeep girl.. and am wondering if I made a mistake in buying this car.. more so, I just want to know what in the world it going on and how can I fix it?!
Thanks in advance!
Holly


Shouldn't really drive with the oil light on. VW says if it flickers at idle, this is normal, but not whilst driving.

Some things to look for.

1. How is the belt tension? Loose belt can slip and not turn the generator fast enough, therefore not spin the fan quick enough, reducing your cooling.

2. You say you renewed the clutch. Did your mechanic check for any debris in the fan shroud? Was any tinware removed that may not have been put back properly or not put back.

3. There could be blockage going to the oil cooler not allowing to cool.

4. The oil pressure relief valve may be stuck open (unlikely) allowing oil to bypass the cooler. But then, if there is a blockage to the oil cooler, the bypass relief valve will be open.

5. Do you have the heater hoses connected (the 2 hoses coming from the fan shroud on the left and right side? Even if you don't use the heater in the car, this air going over the heater boxes helps keep the engine cool.

6. What is you oil level like? Keep it between the lower and upper marks on the dipstick.

7. What grade oil are you using? This will open up arguments about best oil to use. VW states SAE30, but we're talking about an old engine. I would use 20W-50 or even 20W-60 if you can find it. It is thicker and more versatile than a straight grade oil, and will help to keep your engine cooler at operating temperatures.

The dip stick shouldn't be too hot to touch. Very warm, but not burning hot.

Enriching the carby is a very short-term patch "fix" but can lead to other problems like diluting your oil in the cylinders and maybe even finding its way into the crankcase which is not good, as it will reduce the effectiveness of the oil. Not to mention the excessive fuel consumption.

The worst advice your mechanic gave you was not to worry abot the oil light being on. The only cooling your engine gets is 1. Oil and 2. Air Restrict or block one of these and your engine will cook. The VW engine is quite forgiving, but like everything else, has its limits.

This list is not exhaustive, but things to look out for. I'm sure others will jump in and share their knowledge and experience also.
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Randy in Maine
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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Key things to look at are 1) the idle speed (as determined by the distributor you are running) and 2) is the engine actually pumping oil as it should.

1) is pretty easy to determine using a dwell tachomter and

2) is determine by installing a mechanical oil pressure gauge at the engine. If you are indeed getting adequate oil pressure as verified by the gauge, there may be a problem with the oil pressure control valve on the bottom of the engine as the oil gets hot and it may not be routed over to the cooler.

Stay with the 30 weight oil though as these cars think that "thick oil" is really "cold oil" and wil not send it to the cooler when needed.
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kegankavu
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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you both so very much! I will bring up these things to my vw guy. I know that the vw are suppose to be very easy to troubleshoot/ work on... but I am NOT familiar with them at all.. and my tool collection is not very extensive, neither is my sidewalk garage. Smile
I found it really odd that it was running well (minus the oil light which briefly came on at idle and the throttle sticking) then the carb was adjusted and within 15-20mins it got hot. Thanks again!
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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oil-light that flickers at idle usually means rebuild is imminent.
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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kegankavu wrote:
I found it really odd that it was running well (minus the oil light which briefly came on at idle and the throttle sticking) then the carb was adjusted and within 15-20mins it got hot. Thanks again!


Just in response to this one comment: The carburettor, as you know, controls the fuel/air mixture. What many folks don't know is that a richer mixture (more fuel) will, relatively speaking, cool the engine and a leaner mixture (less fuel) will heat it.

But too lean a mixture can actually "burn" or melt various engine bits. Too rich a mixture ends up diluting your engine's oil with gasoline and then the oil can't do its job properly (leading to more problems!). Also, too rich a mixture means higher fuel consumption. Carburettors should be adjusted "by the book" until such time as everything else in the engine is sorted out. Then you can slightly tweak the carb (if needed) for your particular driving style. As someone said, messing with the carb to try to fix something else in the engine is not a good idea.

Good luck with it!
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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A rag or something get sucked into the fan maybe, usually if it does you can hear it or it will vibrate badly but you never know.
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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 8:27 pm    Post subject: this may sound goofy.... Reply with quote

is the oil sender and the wire on pretty good? On mine, the wire was loose and sometimes acted like I did not put any oil in there.

also what grade of oil you using? Out here in AZ, the heat will make the oil run thinner making the dash light up.
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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fitz. wrote:
Oil-light that flickers at idle usually means rebuild is imminent.


Not necessarily. One could have the idle rpm set very low or have low oil level in the sump, not making enough pressure to pressurise the oil switch, therefore illuminating the green/red oil light when at idle.
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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 4:55 pm    Post subject: Re: 1970 vw bug overheating-- oil light coming on..what to d Reply with quote

dakdak wrote:
[ VW states SAE30, but we're talking about an old engine. I would use 20W-50 or even 20W-60 if you can find it. It is thicker and more versatile than a straight grade oil, and will help to keep your engine cooler at operating temperatures.

.


oil viscosity has zero to do with operating temperature, *except* when the oil is too thick... like a 50 or 60 WILL be...
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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 5:01 pm    Post subject: Re: 1970 vw bug overheating-- oil light coming on..what to d Reply with quote

bugninva wrote:
dakdak wrote:
[ VW states SAE30, but we're talking about an old engine. I would use 20W-50 or even 20W-60 if you can find it. It is thicker and more versatile than a straight grade oil, and will help to keep your engine cooler at operating temperatures.

.


oil viscosity has zero to do with operating temperature, *except* when the oil is too thick... like a 50 or 60 WILL be...



I'm going to say this and duck. Do you want to listen to a screen or the guys who built the thing? Thats why I run what VW tells me to run.
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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 5:05 pm    Post subject: Re: 1970 vw bug overheating-- oil light coming on..what to d Reply with quote

bugninva wrote:
dakdak wrote:
[ VW states SAE30, but we're talking about an old engine. I would use 20W-50 or even 20W-60 if you can find it. It is thicker and more versatile than a straight grade oil, and will help to keep your engine cooler at operating temperatures.

.


oil viscosity has zero to do with operating temperature, *except* when the oil is too thick... like a 50 or 60 WILL be...


As was stated earlier in this post, there would be diffrences of opinion regarding the use of oil in one's car. The final decision rests with the car owner as to what oil is used in their car. I know here in Australia, 20W-50 is one of the more common, if not most used oil in VW's, and our climate doesn't differ that much from the US, just at opposite times
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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you guys so much for the response! I spoke with my guy again today, he is going to take her for a little while and see if she will act up for him. I am going to write all of your suggestions down and take them to him, 6-7 brains are better than one.. I just hope that he doesn't take it personally. He did admit that he was stumped, so I will hope for the best. I will post when I find out what the problem is, it may help someone else save some, process of elimination, $. Thanks again!

fyi, I drove her again today, 2 hours (1 hr each way) she did great, no oil light or running hot.. its just when I take her errand running after a longer ride. I love "Lucy", maybe a little more when she doesn't get hot for holly! Smile take care!
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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 5:37 pm    Post subject: Re: 1970 vw bug overheating-- oil light coming on..what to d Reply with quote

doc1369 wrote:


I'm going to say this and duck. Do you want to listen to a screen or the guys who built the thing? Thats why I run what VW tells me to run.


I'm with you, doc... did vw say to use a 50 or 60 weight oil? (hint: this will show you what vw wanted you to run...notice they say no oil additives, either, many believe that with TODAY's(keyword, since we sure as shit aren't in 68 anymore) oils you need additives to keep your valvetrane alive.. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/68bug/68T1-41.jpg )

dakdak wrote:
As was stated earlier in this post, there would be diffrences of opinion regarding the use of oil in one's car. The final decision rests with the car owner as to what oil is used in their car. I know here in Australia, 20W-50 is one of the more common, if not most used oil in VW's, and our climate doesn't differ that much from the US, just at opposite times

I'm with you, too... very commonly used here in the US, also... so are external coolers, when the thick oil keeps the oil cooler bypassed... Wink I, myself, was a user of the commonly poor advice to use 20-50 "year round" in an aircooled vw... also subscribed to the theory(that was repeated to me SO many times) that an aircooled vw does not need a thermostat and will overheat if you have it... both of those were proven wrong, for me, by me, years ago... actual real world "living" on both sides has shown me the proverbial light.... many years of happy, warm interior in the winter, and good operating temperatures(both head and oil) ever since I set up the engine properly.... Wink
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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 6:55 pm    Post subject: Re: 1970 vw bug overheating-- oil light coming on..what to d Reply with quote

doc1369 wrote:
I'm going to say this and duck. Do you want to listen to a screen or the guys who built the thing? Thats why I run what VW tells me to run.


Yes Dear.
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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Too late Dak, I ducked Razz
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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 4:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry to hear about the problems with your '70, Holly. Mine is a SP (single port) engine. I didn't know they made a DP that year....
Is it a transplant? If so, hopefully your mechanic isn't timing it to SP specs for that year ( 0 BTDC). I'd have him check the engine number and verify where that puppy should be timed to make sure...
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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey J,
I was under the impression that it was single.. but then again this is my first vw. My vw guy did clarify though that it was a dual, so maybe it is a transplant. I know that the motor was rebuilt sometime ago. The last thing my guy said he thought it could be was the pistons and rings.. He said he was going to do it "free labor" I just had to pay for parts..this is worse case though. Hopefully it won't get that far. I've been without her (Lucy) for 5wks already.
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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's really easy to see if you have a single or duel port head. follow the intake from the carb to the engine. There will be a orange gasket where the intake atatched to the carb and the two intakes attached to the heads connect. Look at the intake attached to the head. Is it round or does it look like two pipes welded together? If it two pipes you have a duel. Check out the engine bay thread here to practice.
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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have him double check the timing... if it's mis-set because of confusion on the engine type, that could be making it run hotter than normal which in turn may be thinning out the oil which may then be making your oil light come on..... Have him check the engine number to make sure where that timing's supposed to be...
What bugs me is you said it was running great before he replaced the clutch and did the tune up....I'm thinking the tune up (timing or perhaps dwell) isn't adjusted properly for your engine.
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