| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Joeys1969
Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2010
Posts: 555
Location: Florida
|
 Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:37 pm Post subject: Wiring harness options |
 |
|
After another frustrating night of trying to trace spliced wires from the p.o of my 71, I think it's time to just order a complete wiring harness for it.
So my question is, who has replaced a whole harness in a bus, and is there a harness that is more simplistic then another? The reason I ask, is because I re-wired my 69 beetle and the harness was a PITA to follow and understand.
Thanks in advanced guys!
Joe[/list]
_________________
Daily static 69 beetle 6inch narrowed beam, 2 clicks out back. 1600 dual port 2 Barrel Weber. My 1st love. Complete resto with the help of my dad!
Project 71 camper, complete overhaul in progress!
DUB LOVE <3 |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
grandpa pete
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2008
Posts: 1325
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I don't know that there is a complete wiring harness available to use 
_________________
69 tintop camper 1600 DP |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 17550
Location: State Capitol CA (Sacramento)
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I would think a new wiring harness would be a bigger PITA.
Make sure you have the right tools.
1) Large blowup of your wiring in color
2) Some carb cleaner or acetone to wipe the wire ends to see what color they really are.
3) Volt meter
4) Digital Camera to take good photos in case you get stuck.
5) green or blue tape and sharpie to mark wires that you figure out but don't hook up yet so you don't have to figure them twice
6) assortment of correct connectors
7) crimp tool for connectors
 Electrical tape and heat shrink tubing to make sure any worn spots or splices are insulated
9) Good movie and some popcorn to kick back when you are worn out from chasing wires.
_________________
Steve aka Merlin the Wrench
formerly Steve's Racing and Engine Blueprinting. Wrenching since 1967.
bdamico on GF wrote | Quote: | | "When I was your age I'd plan out all sorts of stuff for the future and almost none of them came true. Just wonder if it's worth trying to be a crystal ball. " |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tcash 
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 547
Location: San Jose California
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rustbus
Samba Member
Joined: June 18, 2009
Posts: 1773
Location: alberta
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| SGKent wrote: | I would think a new wiring harness would be a bigger PITA.
Make sure you have the right tools.
1) Large blowup of your wiring in color
2) Some carb cleaner or acetone to wipe the wire ends to see what color they really are.
3) Volt meter
4) Digital Camera to take good photos in case you get stuck.
5) green or blue tape and sharpie to mark wires that you figure out but don't hook up yet so you don't have to figure them twice
6) assortment of correct connectors
7) crimp tool for connectors
Electrical tape and heat shrink tubing to make sure any worn spots or splices are insulated
9) Good movie and some popcorn to kick back when you are worn out from chasing wires. |
this is absolutely the best way to go, i just had a recent bus wiring adventure
i just rewired a 'new' (78-ish champagne) dash into this 75 panel van - the PO had hacked in an early dash (71 or 72) into the 75 after it had a dash fire (i suspect BN6 heater wiring started it)
the hack-in was a mess, and the wires were almost all blackened by the fire..lucky all i really had to do was trace and repair between the fuse box and the entire dash and correct switches.
anyhow the tools steve mentioned is exactly what i used, took me about a week of evenings to sort the whole thing out. the most complicated part is the gauge cluster, and its really not bad after you get the hang of it.
what part of the bus are you having trouble with? engine side or dash side?
you are also lucky since the early wiring diagrams are simplistic to read and the samba has them in full color to print.
go for it i had fun and it was rewarding when i turned the key and everything worked right the first time
_________________
May of '72 Deluxe.  2.0L L-Jet CS & 091 trans conversion
my Bus thread |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tom Powell
Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2005
Posts: 1539
Location: Kaneohe
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Get the schematic.
Tie a string to the end of the wire being replaced.
Pull the wire from the other end.
Tie the new wire to the string.
Pull the new wire through with the string.
Same procedure for clutch cables, etc.
Aloha
tp |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 17550
Location: State Capitol CA (Sacramento)
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Tom Powell wrote: | Get the schematic.
Tie a string to the end of the wire being replaced.
Pull the wire from the other end.
Tie the new wire to the string.
Pull the new wire through with the string.
Same procedure for clutch cables, etc.
Aloha
tp |
Tom - some are taped in bundles and often the real issue is that the PO has added stereo wires, extra gauges etc and they are all red or blue or black etc.
_________________
Steve aka Merlin the Wrench
formerly Steve's Racing and Engine Blueprinting. Wrenching since 1967.
bdamico on GF wrote | Quote: | | "When I was your age I'd plan out all sorts of stuff for the future and almost none of them came true. Just wonder if it's worth trying to be a crystal ball. " |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Desertbusman
Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2005
Posts: 13063
Location: Arizona
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:01 pm Post subject: Re: Wiring harness options |
|
|
| Joeys1969 wrote: | I think it's time to just order a complete wiring harness for it.
|
What do you mean by a complete harness? A harness is one complete item of wires contained together in a sheath. It's one item only. There is the main harness running front to rear, then smaller harnesses, then a pile of individual wires.
What you might want to do is identify what the main harness is composed of on the wiring diagram. It has 11 wires bundled together so at the front end find the end of the sheath and follow those 11 wires to where they terminate. Some continue on to other locations. Pretty much the same deal at the rear. So that will help you decide if you really do want to replace the main harness. You might need to replace some end connectors here and there or repair a cut or damaged wire.
Probably at the rear of the main harness in the engine compartment there is apt to be damage and problems. I think you can get just the engine compartment replacement portion of the main harness which you would cut and splice in.
then you can inspect the integrety of the smaller harness and all the individual wires one at a time. Inspect every wire complete from end to end.
I always wipe each wire with a cloth and solvent and dip the end connectors in acid to get them clean and fresh.
It's easy to look at the big scrambled mess and think it would be nice to replace the whole mess.. When in reality there might not be that many wires that are bad. Get rid of all the P.O.'s added connectors that you identify with the yellow, blue or red insulators and redo them with better quality. What really makes the process nice is if you find a bus at a salvage yard and pull all of the wiring out of it. then dig thru that pile of wires to find good individual wires to put in yours.
You want instructions. The best instructions are the wiring diagram itself. Have Kinkos print out a few enlarged working copies. With your colored marker pens you can confirm (or whatever) one wire at a time. Easiest to start with the largest wire (the white with red wire from the starter to the fuse block) and work downward in size. Inspect both th wire and where it's connected and put a piece of tape at each end to tell you which ones you have confirmed. then when finished if you have any wires without the tape markings investigate to see what they are.
When every wire on your diagram is marked and every wire has your identification on it's connections you are done.
It might be scary but actually if you keep organized it's not that big of a deal.
_________________
The best thing that anyone can do for their Bay is get the Volkswagen of America Official Service Manual published by Robert Bentley. Without it the bus is pretty much doomed.
| 73kombi wrote: | | when that red light goes on, you have to make a choice. |
| Amskeptic wrote: | I am not answering that.
Respectfully,
GoBuyABentley |
71 Superbug
71 Westy |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
babysnakes
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2008
Posts: 3788
Location: West Boca Raton, Fla.
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
If you are having doubts about spending a couple of bucks on blowing up the wiring diagram. It would be a lot easier to work with this.
I have to rewire a '69 that came with not one wire. Busdepot sells a hrness that I have my eye on, though it's not complete. ( None are ) Source a parts bus for a used harness to cut up and use where the new one is lacking. Buying wire from the store might sound easier but you wont get the color codes you need.
_________________
'69 SC under resto
'72 deluxe daily
'78 Westy motor transplant in progress
'71 super vert
1st bus, '67 Westy in '83. Thank you '74 Pontiac Ventura.
Luftwagens
420GOAT wrote:
..dont ever ever ever ever EVER, compare any bus forum to a bug forum... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
chabanais
Samba Member
Joined: July 27, 2002
Posts: 3539
Location: West of the Mississippi River.
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
There is a company in England that sells a complete harness.
I need to change mine due to hacking.
How long does it take?
_________________
"I spud therefore I yam."
| Collie wrote: | | The silver socket is sacred and must not be disturbed |
| Serpent7 wrote: | | Keeping in-line with what VW originally had in mind; keeping the bus as close to OEM as possible with a few little changes to give it a "not forgotten look" but still maintaining the charm that made them what they are today. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Studt's 73
Samba Member
Joined: April 09, 2010
Posts: 143
Location: Pacific, Missouri
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
420GOAT
Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2006
Posts: 3299
Location: Wilmington 90744 actually driving and fixing my bus.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jockomo
Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2006
Posts: 138
Location: Lafayette, LA
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 5:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
If you replace the main harness you'll want to take the old one out (and put the new one in) from where the starter is.
Basically you unplug the big multipin connector, take the pins out of the plastic part and then pull that first section through from under the front of the bus. You'll need to access the cable from inside the cab so you'll need to take the kick panels off and free it up from any other cabling there.
When you blow up the image of your wiring diagram, use a highlighter and highlight each section that you check.
Take lots of pictures if you start pulling wires from behind the fusebox.
_________________
'75 Westy with '78 2.0L engine. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
babysnakes
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2008
Posts: 3788
Location: West Boca Raton, Fla.
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
That's $600 after Paypal and before shipping and ins.
_________________
'69 SC under resto
'72 deluxe daily
'78 Westy motor transplant in progress
'71 super vert
1st bus, '67 Westy in '83. Thank you '74 Pontiac Ventura.
Luftwagens
420GOAT wrote:
..dont ever ever ever ever EVER, compare any bus forum to a bug forum... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 23896
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, Land of the giant flying moose!
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Unless the bus had suffered some sort of massive fire there's no way I'd replace a harness "just because". Bus wiring is really simple once you break it down to the individual systems and copper doesn't age, even that good German insulation holds up well, disconnecting everything and combing out the old harness then repairing one circuit at a time has always worked for me, follow the diagram so you'll be able to troubleshoot later just in case. Careful attention to terminal condition, fit on the connector and some heat shrink is worth the extra few minutes as well.
The best way is pick one circuit at a time and ignore everything else, once it's dialed in move on until you run out of wires.
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Wanted, 68-73 westy OG plaid curtains, singles OK. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Joeys1969
Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2010
Posts: 555
Location: Florida
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The reason I was looking into the full harness is because the PO made a huge mess! He lost the key for the bus, and repeatedly tried to hot wire the car to get it started which resulted in many wires being burnt and melted straight to the fuse panel! Not to mention all the cut/spliced wires! I have looked around and see that you can only buy the "main harness" which is pretty frustrating to me  I have to admit, find parts for bugs is a lot easier!
_________________
Daily static 69 beetle 6inch narrowed beam, 2 clicks out back. 1600 dual port 2 Barrel Weber. My 1st love. Complete resto with the help of my dad!
Project 71 camper, complete overhaul in progress!
DUB LOVE <3 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Joeys1969
Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2010
Posts: 555
Location: Florida
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| babysnakes wrote: | If you are having doubts about spending a couple of bucks on blowing up the wiring diagram. It would be a lot easier to work with this.
I have to rewire a '69 that came with not one wire. Busdepot sells a hrness that I have my eye on, though it's not complete. ( None are ) Source a parts bus for a used harness to cut up and use where the new one is lacking. Buying wire from the store might sound easier but you wont get the color codes you need. |
And great idea! I have printed out the smaller diagram before but blowing it up that big must make life way easier!
Joe
_________________
Daily static 69 beetle 6inch narrowed beam, 2 clicks out back. 1600 dual port 2 Barrel Weber. My 1st love. Complete resto with the help of my dad!
Project 71 camper, complete overhaul in progress!
DUB LOVE <3 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Joeys1969
Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2010
Posts: 555
Location: Florida
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:25 pm Post subject: Re: Wiring harness options |
|
|
| Desertbusman wrote: | | Joeys1969 wrote: | I think it's time to just order a complete wiring harness for it.
|
What do you mean by a complete harness? A harness is one complete item of wires contained together in a sheath. It's one item only. There is the main harness running front to rear, then smaller harnesses, then a pile of individual wires.
What you might want to do is identify what the main harness is composed of on the wiring diagram. It has 11 wires bundled together so at the front end find the end of the sheath and follow those 11 wires to where they terminate. Some continue on to other locations. Pretty much the same deal at the rear. So that will help you decide if you really do want to replace the main harness. You might need to replace some end connectors here and there or repair a cut or damaged wire.
Probably at the rear of the main harness in the engine compartment there is apt to be damage and problems. I think you can get just the engine compartment replacement portion of the main harness which you would cut and splice in.
then you can inspect the integrety of the smaller harness and all the individual wires one at a time. Inspect every wire complete from end to end.
I always wipe each wire with a cloth and solvent and dip the end connectors in acid to get them clean and fresh.
It's easy to look at the big scrambled mess and think it would be nice to replace the whole mess.. When in reality there might not be that many wires that are bad. Get rid of all the P.O.'s added connectors that you identify with the yellow, blue or red insulators and redo them with better quality. What really makes the process nice is if you find a bus at a salvage yard and pull all of the wiring out of it. then dig thru that pile of wires to find good individual wires to put in yours.
You want instructions. The best instructions are the wiring diagram itself. Have Kinkos print out a few enlarged working copies. With your colored marker pens you can confirm (or whatever) one wire at a time. Easiest to start with the largest wire (the white with red wire from the starter to the fuse block) and work downward in size. Inspect both th wire and where it's connected and put a piece of tape at each end to tell you which ones you have confirmed. then when finished if you have any wires without the tape markings investigate to see what they are.
When every wire on your diagram is marked and every wire has your identification on it's connections you are done.
It might be scary but actually if you keep organized it's not that big of a deal. |
Thank you for all the tips! I do get frustrated very easy with wiring, and that's why my dad and I always tackle it together, two pairs eyes are wayyyy better than one lol
I have got a few things working like the wipers, parking lights, tail lights, etc. I have tried to fire it up too, it'll crank over but I'm not getting any power to the coil so it won't fire. Just gotta do one thing at a time, and stay neat like you said!
Joe
_________________
Daily static 69 beetle 6inch narrowed beam, 2 clicks out back. 1600 dual port 2 Barrel Weber. My 1st love. Complete resto with the help of my dad!
Project 71 camper, complete overhaul in progress!
DUB LOVE <3 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
74BabeWindow
Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2011
Posts: 64
Location: Phoenix, Az
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 7:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I'm not comfortable driving with the Mickey mouse wiring I had in my bus from the po. There were minimal original connections, and all new ones were barely grabbing and uncovered. I bought a harness from Jon Aaron in Britain and it took about a week to make and a week to ship. It has taken me less than a week with a blown up, laminated diagram to almost finish all of the wiring. It was very impressive when I got it, and he sends you a diagram anyhow. With an intelligent helper, it is way easier. 
Hope that helped! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
chabanais
Samba Member
Joined: July 27, 2002
Posts: 3539
Location: West of the Mississippi River.
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
There's a place in England that sells a complete OEM style harness. It's very expensive.
_________________
"I spud therefore I yam."
| Collie wrote: | | The silver socket is sacred and must not be disturbed |
| Serpent7 wrote: | | Keeping in-line with what VW originally had in mind; keeping the bus as close to OEM as possible with a few little changes to give it a "not forgotten look" but still maintaining the charm that made them what they are today. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
