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bgup619
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2010
Posts: 79
Location: San Diego
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 Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 4:06 pm Post subject: decklid standoffs |
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| I like the way they look, but I was wondering if the provide more cooling to your motor as well? It seems like the gap would give your motor a nice airbath while moving.. Any opinions? |
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31373
Location: Hot Arizona
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hitest
Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2008
Posts: 10296
Location: Prime Meridian, ID
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| Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 5:45 pm Post subject: Re: decklid standoffs |
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| bgup619 wrote: |
| I like the way they look, but I was wondering if the provide more cooling to your motor as well? It seems like the gap would give your motor a nice airbath while moving.. Any opinions? |
They were never about the look. They were always intended to aid cooling- and in many cases they do. If you like the look- that's a bonus over the function. Your decklid can look cool while your motor looks dirtier most the time. Heat from idling escapes a little easer. I don't like the look on anything but a traditional (80s style) cal looker.
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| EverettB wrote: |
I wonder what the nut looks like.
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'62 L390 151, '62 L469 117, '63 L380 113, '64 L87 311, '65 L512 265, '65 L31 SO-42, '66 L360 251, '68 L30k 141, '71 L12 113, '74 ORG 181
FU#5 |
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drscope
Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2007
Posts: 15273
Location: Baltimore, Maryland USA
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bgup619
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2010
Posts: 79
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 10:25 pm Post subject: Re: decklid standoffs |
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| hitest wrote: |
| bgup619 wrote: |
| I like the way they look, but I was wondering if the provide more cooling to your motor as well? It seems like the gap would give your motor a nice airbath while moving.. Any opinions? |
They were never about the look. They were always intended to aid cooling- and in many cases they do. If you like the look- that's a bonus over the function. Your decklid can look cool while your motor looks dirtier most the time. Heat from idling escapes a little easer. I don't like the look on anything but a traditional (80s style) cal looker. |
well so sorry if I offended you.. Since my 64 is garaged and well maintained Im not worried about the motor getting dirty from standoffs exposing it.. I am glad to hear they serve the purpose I suspected.. I like the idea of keeping my motor as cool as possible.. Thanks for the opinions guys.. |
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MAYHEM
Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 1813
Location: Warm and sunny coastal CT
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| Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 2:28 am Post subject: |
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They work.
If you like the look it's a bonus. I had them, but I replaced them with this.
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Greg
Model Citizen
| johnnypan wrote: |
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Ben Holloway
Samba Member
Joined: May 03, 2010
Posts: 25
Location: Bend
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| Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 7:57 am Post subject: |
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I like the idea of an extended catch instead ot the stands some about rain all over the top of my carbs dosnt sit well with me.
Ben |
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bgup619
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2010
Posts: 79
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 8:08 am Post subject: |
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| Ben Holloway wrote: |
I like the idea of an extended catch instead ot the stands some about rain all over the top of my carbs dosnt sit well with me.
Ben |
If I lived in Oregon like you that would pose a threat but not here in San Diego... |
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drscope
Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2007
Posts: 15273
Location: Baltimore, Maryland USA
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| Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 8:55 am Post subject: |
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I just wonder how much hot exhaust air comes in when you prop the lid open at the bottom.
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Mother Nature is a Mean Evil Bitch! |
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rgdedge
Samba Member
Joined: October 17, 2006
Posts: 862
Location: Seymour, TN
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| Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 10:55 am Post subject: |
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| drscope wrote: |
| I just wonder how much hot exhaust air comes in when you prop the lid open at the bottom. |
Thats what I have thought about also. The seals are there for a reason.
Tim |
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Itawayoflife
Samba Member
Joined: February 20, 2006
Posts: 1181
Location: Buena Park,CA
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| Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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| rgdedge wrote: |
| drscope wrote: |
| I just wonder how much hot exhaust air comes in when you prop the lid open at the bottom. |
Thats what I have thought about also. The seals are there for a reason.
Tim |
I made an extended catch for mine and it helps during driving but, yes, during idle things do tend to heat up.
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hinrichs
Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2009
Posts: 36
Location: wyomissinga, pa
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| Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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| i put a set of these on my car but then my lid hit the bumper so i took them off |
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drscope
Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2007
Posts: 15273
Location: Baltimore, Maryland USA
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| Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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| hinrichs wrote: |
| i put a set of these on my car but then my lid hit the bumper so i took them off |
Why not adjust the bumper so it clears? Easy to do.
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GTi4lifee
Samba Member
Joined: September 27, 2006
Posts: 152
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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| Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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if you read hot rodding your VW book, it is not about cooling with decklid stand-offs, it is the fact that when you run webers or dells or any large carb they will not be able to suck enough air through the stock vent louvers. The fan and RPMS dictate cooling, the standoffs provide enough air so the carbs dont choke out.
DING DING! Round two!
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bgup619
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2010
Posts: 79
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Sat May 29, 2010 7:08 am Post subject: |
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| GTi4lifee wrote: |
if you read hot rodding your VW book, it is not about cooling with decklid stand-offs, it is the fact that when you run webers or dells or any large carb they will not be able to suck enough air through the stock vent louvers. The fan and RPMS dictate cooling, the standoffs provide enough air so the carbs dont choke out.
DING DING! Round two! |
Just because one book cites this as the purpose of standoffs does not mean it is the sole purpose. I find it reallyhard to believe that you wont see improved cooling with that much air flowing over your motor.. Thats just common sense.. BTW Ive seen pleanty of bugs with duals/ big carb applications that dont run standoffs that run just fine.. |
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Jody '71
Samba Member
Joined: July 16, 2005
Posts: 2842
Location: Manassas VA
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| Posted: Sat May 29, 2010 7:35 am Post subject: |
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IMO you shouldn't need standoffs in San Diego with your '64, unless your engine has been modified to the point where you feel additional cooling is necessary. I can see Cusser using them in AZ, it gets really warm there. Desertbusman on the Bay Window forum lives in AZ and has a Beetle and a '71 Bus. I don't think DBM has modified his Bus engine hatch to achieve the same effect that standoffs do with Beetles. I don't know if he has modified his Beelte in any way for the desert heat. Aeromech lives in San Diego, he's a very knowledgeable Samba member as well. He just sold his really nice '65 to some dude in NY. That one didn't have standoffs.
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'66 Beetle
2011 Hyundai Elantra Touring |
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bgup619
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2010
Posts: 79
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Sat May 29, 2010 8:38 am Post subject: |
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| ohh I know I dont need standoffs.. I just like the Cal look.. Thats why Im getting them, I know we are spoiled here with the weather.. But more cool air is a nice bonus.. |
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bill may
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2003
Posts: 14160
Location: san diego,ca
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GTi4lifee
Samba Member
Joined: September 27, 2006
Posts: 152
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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| Posted: Sat May 29, 2010 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| bgup619 wrote: |
| GTi4lifee wrote: |
if you read hot rodding your VW book, it is not about cooling with decklid stand-offs, it is the fact that when you run webers or dells or any large carb they will not be able to suck enough air through the stock vent louvers. The fan and RPMS dictate cooling, the standoffs provide enough air so the carbs dont choke out.
DING DING! Round two! |
Just because one book cites this as the purpose of standoffs does not mean it is the sole purpose. I find it reallyhard to believe that you wont see improved cooling with that much air flowing over your motor.. Thats just common sense.. BTW Ive seen pleanty of bugs with duals/ big carb applications that dont run standoffs that run just fine.. |
I knew that was coming. If you look at an upright engine, you will notice that the standoffs do NOT blow air over your engine. As an engineer there is a number of reasons that I run standoffs in Phoenix. It provides the hot air somewhere to go with the least amount of resisitance. It provides the FAN (that big thing that provides ALL the cooling air for your engine) fresh air to blow on your cylinders. Plus, the look is pretty cool and very unique to the beetle.
I want to touch on this one first-
"I find it reallyhard to believe that you wont see improved cooling with that much air flowing over your motor.. Thats just common sense"
UMMMMM correct me if I am wrong here, but cooling air is dictated by your engine rpm, the size and number of blades on a fan, along with the size of the pullies on the pulley system (IE power pullies cause you to run hot kinda thing). Also the ambient temp, driving conditions and timing/fuel (these last two play a part if they are way wrong).
Second thing I want to touch on- "BTW Ive seen pleanty of bugs with duals/ big carb applications that dont run standoffs that run just fine."
NOPE! Just wrong! Tell you what, run a sleeper beetle, with a turbo 2110 with a stock deck lid installed. DONE IT! yea, it does not work. The reason- the stock louvers on a standard sedan is so restrictive that I was not getting enough airflow under just 5 pounds of boost to run correctly. Now, that was the set up that I ran. Another account- My friend had a 2110, dual webber 40's. with a stock (blisters installed for looks and to retain stock appearence) decklid, he would run great, then you could feel the engine quitting then die. The cause- NOT enough airflow through stock sedan louvers.
ONE more point-once you are running a DTM cooling system, the louvers are not enough of free-flow and the engine actually gets a drag down from the suction that it has to create to produce airflow.
Last note- I work on Piper aircraft that are 100 percent dependent on airflow and differential air pressure for correct cooling. These are 360 cubic inch 4-cylinders. Plus, I designed and created a second oil cooler system for the Phoenix area. The reason I bring this up, i kinda consider myself a little bit of an expert on aircooled engine, plus.... do you have a degree in engineering?
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doc hopper
Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2006
Posts: 588
Location: California
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| Posted: Sun May 30, 2010 7:58 am Post subject: Stand Offs |
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I have 5 older VW's, two buses, three bugs. For both my 1776 running Dual Weber 42's and my 2313 running Dual Weber 48's I prop the BOTTOM of the deck lid (per Gene Berg). No problem with cooling, and none in getting sufficient air. By the way.... I initially tried the 2313 using just the stock vents and no prop on my 66 sedan. Then I installed a convertible decklid with the factory vents. Wow! It was like picking up an extra 50 HP! The 2313 now runs with the vert decklid AND the bottom prop.
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