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dirtylawnchair Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2004 Posts: 1234 Location: Bradenton FL
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Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 5:13 am Post subject: |
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Matt Miller wrote: |
If anyone in the future has similar problems and reads this thread, it could help them. |
Cheers! _________________ Paulie
63 Standard OG paint |
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blistered Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2007 Posts: 12 Location: Hiding in the UK
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Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:29 am Post subject: |
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I know this is an old thread but I'm struggling a little with this same issue.
I've got a 62 US import with emergency lights and couldn't get the indicator light on the dash to work (with the wiring as standard). Found out the ignition live wasn't connected above to the terminal above the bulb holder and every time I connected it it would set the flasher relay off.
I followed the instructions that have been suggested on here and moved the black/green/white wire to the iginition live fuse. This meant I could then attach the ignition live wire to the correct terminal and the indicators worked as expected (assuming the dashlight was basically acting as a permanent live before changing the wire to the other fuse as when touching the ignition live to the terminal would cause it to click the flasher relay even with the ignition off).
However, I now have the situation where the emergency lights will only work with the ignition turned on and neither indicators or emergency lights will work with the ignition off.
Anyone had the same experience? How did you get round it?
I'm not too worried about it as emergency lights aren't a requirement in the UK for a '62 built car but it'd be nice to have everything working correctly. I'm assuming no-ones tried finding a 4-prong flasher relay to use as a replacement? |
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dirtylawnchair Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2004 Posts: 1234 Location: Bradenton FL
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Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:56 am Post subject: |
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blistered wrote: |
However, I now have the situation where the emergency lights will only work with the ignition turned on and neither indicators or emergency lights will work with the ignition off. |
This is how mine works too. No worries as I am a US, Florida boy. _________________ Paulie
63 Standard OG paint |
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blistered Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2007 Posts: 12 Location: Hiding in the UK
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Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:01 am Post subject: |
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dirtylawnchair wrote: |
blistered wrote: |
However, I now have the situation where the emergency lights will only work with the ignition turned on and neither indicators or emergency lights will work with the ignition off. |
This is how mine works too. No worries as I am a US, Florida boy. |
I was going off your posts lol. |
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dirtylawnchair Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2004 Posts: 1234 Location: Bradenton FL
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Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:07 am Post subject: |
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blistered wrote: |
dirtylawnchair wrote: |
blistered wrote: |
However, I now have the situation where the emergency lights will only work with the ignition turned on and neither indicators or emergency lights will work with the ignition off. |
This is how mine works too. No worries as I am a US, Florida boy. |
I was going off your posts lol. |
From previous page:
dirtylawnchair wrote: |
Fixed. All works as it should.
I move the Black/Green/White wire coming off 49 to a keyed power source. Originally it was routed to the constant power fuse on the far right. I moved it one left. Only difference is my turn signals only work with the key on. |
_________________ Paulie
63 Standard OG paint |
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blistered Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2007 Posts: 12 Location: Hiding in the UK
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Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:11 am Post subject: |
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dirtylawnchair wrote: |
blistered wrote: |
dirtylawnchair wrote: |
blistered wrote: |
However, I now have the situation where the emergency lights will only work with the ignition turned on and neither indicators or emergency lights will work with the ignition off. |
This is how mine works too. No worries as I am a US, Florida boy. |
I was going off your posts lol. |
From previous page:
dirtylawnchair wrote: |
Fixed. All works as it should.
I move the Black/Green/White wire coming off 49 to a keyed power source. Originally it was routed to the constant power fuse on the far right. I moved it one left. Only difference is my turn signals only work with the key on. |
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Turn signals working off the key isn't a problem. But the emergency lights working without the key would be useful If you haven't managed that then its no biggy really. |
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mastorna Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2008 Posts: 177 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:15 pm Post subject: Re: Flasher Relays: Substituting 3-Terminal for 4-Terminal |
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I wanted to give y'all a shout out. This thread solved my turn signal/flasher issue that ive been wrestling with for a while now. I have a 62 6v with an emergency flasher. I could get the turn signals to work and the e flasher but I could not get the speedo indicator to work. Following the wiring here worked for me.
I had a P L X three prong relay. I was totally confused about how that translated to 49 and 49a til I found this:
P = Pilot (dash light, same as kBl)
L = Load (turn switch, same as 49a)
X = + (power in, same as 49)
Another thing that confused me was how to best ground the relay. I have metal hanged that I clip my relay onto and that metal clip should be grounded to the body. Yet I think that ground isn't as strong as it needs to be. What I did was run a new wire off the pilot and grounded that to the body. That seems to do the trick nicely. Finally followed the rest of the instructions above and boom now I have full functional turn signals and emergency flasher (w key on). _________________ 1959 Type II Mango SO-23
1962 Type II Kombi Light Gray
1963 Type II Standard Sunroof SWR\BG
1963 Type II Deluxe MG\PW
Last edited by mastorna on Sat Sep 09, 2017 2:58 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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BarryL Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004 Posts: 14269 Location: Casa de Oro, California
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Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:03 am Post subject: Re: Flasher Relays: Substituting 3-Terminal for 4-Terminal |
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mastorna wrote: |
... now I have full functional turn signals and emergency flasher (w key on). |
Glad it's working now.
You probably already know it but you can't leave it flashing on the side of the road without pulling the coil power wire off or you could fry your points and damage the coil; you probably wouldn't leave the key in and walk away anyway.
Driving with the flashers on is ok for all that. |
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55samba Samba Member
Joined: June 21, 2002 Posts: 805 Location: CA Bay Area
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Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 2:46 pm Post subject: Re: Flasher Relays: Substituting 3-Terminal for 4-Terminal |
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spectre6000 wrote: |
How do you make a 3-terminal turn signal relay work in a '62 bus with emergency flashers?
Originally, there was a three terminal relay with the case as ground, one terminal went to the fuse block and the emergency flasher relay, one terminal went to the turn signal switch and the emergency flasher switch, and the last one went to the indicator light on the dash.
There was also a four terminal relay for the emergency flashers. One terminal came from the turn signal relay (power), one terminal went to the switch and the passenger side light, one went to the switch (and on through to the drivers' side light), and the last went to the emergency flasher switch.
I've been told by numerous people that to make a three prong switch work, you simply put the indicator light wire with the terminal that goes to the switches. Unfortunately, the indicator light is grounded via the speedometer housing (which is how the light works), so it just grounds the relay out. With the first relay, this caused the indicator light (only) to blink very quickly. I tried a brand new relay (nearly every electrical part on the bus has been replaced by the way) and it buzzed angrily and the indicator light glowed somewhat less brightly.
For all the money I've put into making sure all of the electrics work like they're supposed to, I'm not going to settle for not having turn signal indicator lights. I've read and heard repeatedly that people are running these things successfully, but I don't have any idea how. Who is running a three prong relay with 4-way flashers, and how are you doing it??????? |
I have had one electrical issue after re-wiring my bus. The turn signal indicator in the speedo would not work. And with the wire connected to it made the relay buzz.
I miss read the wiring diagram, I though that the other connector on the speedo housing at the turn signal light was a ground. It is 12v. Now everything works. |
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Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24764 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:45 pm Post subject: Re: Flasher Relays: Substituting 3-Terminal for 4-Terminal |
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BarryL wrote: |
You probably already know it but you can't leave it flashing on the side of the road without pulling the coil power wire off or you could fry your points and damage the coil; you probably wouldn't leave the key in and walk away anyway.
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Problem with that is if that power wire touches a ground it could fry the wiring. Better to remove the small wire at the coil that goes to the distributor points. _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
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GERMANAIRE Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2007 Posts: 689 Location: BUFORD,GA.
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Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:08 pm Post subject: Re: Flasher Relays: Substituting 3-Terminal for 4-Terminal |
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Spectre6000 I truly appreciate you posting that drawing of how to hook up wiring for flasher and emergency flasher. Spot on! I, like dirty lawn chair purchased a 12v, EP35, 3 prong flasher and wired as the diagram and all works perfect. Just make sure all gounds and wiring contacts are good and you should be in business. Thanks again you guys and The Samba for all this great information
Ps. I forgot to mention I used the factory 6volt emergency flasher on passenger side worked perfectly. If I have any problems with it I will post.
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telford dorr Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2009 Posts: 3555 Location: San Diego (Encinitas)
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Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 4:25 pm Post subject: Re: Flasher Relays: Substituting 3-Terminal for 4-Terminal |
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Here's how to hook up a 2-terminal or 3-terminal flasher in place of a 4-terminal flasher WITHOUT rewiring the fuses.
1) The 3-terminal flasher has terminals 49 and 49a. Power goes in 49 (was terminal '+') and flasher signal comes out 49a (was terminal S).
2) The indicator light wire which used to go to terminal K is rewired to terminal 49a. However, this creates a problem when the ignition is off. Because the flasher has full-time power on terminal 49 (needed for 4-way flasher operation with the key off), the flasher signal from terminal 49a tries to ground through the indicator lamp and the inactive ignition wiring, causing the flasher to be weird. The solution is to insert a 1N4001 diode (Fry's, Mouser, Digi-Key, etc.) in series with the indicator light wire. This acts as an electrical one-way check valve which lets ignition power flow through the indicator lamp and then through the non-illuminated turn signal lamps to ground, but not from the flasher through the indicator lamp to the inactive ignition wiring.
The diode has a band around one end. The band end of the diode goes to the flasher terminal 49a and the un-banded end goes to the indicator lamp.
The diode is rated at 1 amp, which should be plenty adequate for the indicator lamp.
Note this connection method will give no indication of a turn/brake bulb being out like the 4-terminal flasher does. When flashing, the indicator will be lit when the turn lamps are not, and vis versa. The indicator will not flash in 4-way flasher mode. Most people can live with these anomalies. _________________ '71 panel, now with FI
'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST) |
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