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Dale M.
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Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20377
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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 Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 8:43 am Post subject: |
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| MonkeySee wrote: |
| Will this work with petronics ignition? No adversity to ignition system? |
Should be non issue, pulses are generated by coil primary side feed back as magnetic field collapses or actually module/coil or points or e-module sending the opening and closing of the "ground" from distributor to trigger coil...
Dale
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Miklo
¡Chale!
Joined: August 27, 2008
Posts: 2058
Location: Antelope Valley, Ca
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| Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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I will soon be installing a Carter P60504 fuel pump.
My question with the relay. Instead of running another wire (31b) back to #1 on the coil... I am also running a tachometer. Would it be possible to T into the tach signal wire behind the dash instead of running aanother wire? Or would it interfere with the tach signal?
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✠Miklo✠
'55 Type1 "Ozma"
'66 Type1 "Charlotte" RIP
Antelope Valley's Mobile Air-Cooled Guru
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Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20377
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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| VeeDubDoug wrote: |
I will soon be installing a Carter P60504 fuel pump.
My question with the relay. Instead of running another wire (31b) back to #1 on the coil... I am also running a tachometer. Would it be possible to T into the tach signal wire behind the dash instead of running aanother wire? Or would it interfere with the tach signal? |
Being its the same "signal" from coil a tentative yes it should work...
Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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haz77
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Joined: December 12, 2013
Posts: 206
Location: NZ
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| Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 1:26 pm Post subject: Re: Electric fuel pump |
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| millerje78 wrote: |
The engine will be carb'd by dual kadrons, which I think like around 2 PSI, but correct me if I'm wrong please.
So, I believe I need the following: something to regulate the pressure, if the pump doesn't regulate itself |
Going back to the question asked, these electric pumps are not adjustable pressure are they, you would still need a pressure regulator to control the output to be anything below the stated 4psi (carter)?
My understanding is the carter does have a 4psi built in pressure relief bypass which is how it regulates the pressure but this also prevents over pressurising of the carb's causing barrel wash down due to fuel expansion in the lines / float bowls from residual heat after shut down, possibly more a type 3 issue than type 1 / 2. |
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Miklo
¡Chale!
Joined: August 27, 2008
Posts: 2058
Location: Antelope Valley, Ca
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| Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Dale M. wrote: |
| VeeDubDoug wrote: |
I will soon be installing a Carter P60504 fuel pump.
My question with the relay. Instead of running another wire (31b) back to #1 on the coil... I am also running a tachometer. Would it be possible to T into the tach signal wire behind the dash instead of running aanother wire? Or would it interfere with the tach signal? |
Being its the same "signal" from coil a tentative yes it should work...
Dale |
Thanks Dale. i will give it a try it and post my results.
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✠Miklo✠
'55 Type1 "Ozma"
'66 Type1 "Charlotte" RIP
Antelope Valley's Mobile Air-Cooled Guru
| Dr OnHolliday wrote: |
| As I remember it, lowriding was not one of the criteria that Adolf gave to Dr. Porsche... |
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nextgen
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Joined: August 19, 2004
Posts: 6022
Location: CONGERS, N.Y.
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| Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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I hated the way my bug was wired for ignition. One thin maybe 20 ga wire from the battery to the key switch, then back to the coil and the starter solenoid. At the coil on a stock car that wire powers the ignition and backup lights. The Starter solenoid does not have so much current but we are talking about 12 feet of wire from the battery to the solenoid and the longer the wire the greater the resistance. I would say all that is fine for a stock car except that the key switches suck dealing with the current. OK so now we are into NON Stock Cars with more stuff going to the coil. I built the box in the photo which is under my rear seat. Once I turn on the ignition the only thing the Key switch does is power the box. The box has a terminal block that feeds the Electric fuel pump, Jacobs Ignition system, back up lights, Tach and coil directly from the battery. Notice TWO 50 amp Relay in Parallel, this way if one fails the other works as a back up.
As for my Start Position on the key switch, I don't use it. Once the key is in the run position, I use a button under the rear seat to fire the ignition solenoid. Nice 14 ga wire from the battery to the push-button to the solenoid. Maybe 4 feet of wire. Everything has a nice direct power source.
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Serpent7
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Joined: May 26, 2008
Posts: 410
Location: Temple Hills, MD.
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| Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:30 am Post subject: Re: Electric fuel pump |
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I have a 73 VW Thing and I bought a very cheap, Bravex inline electric fuel pump (EP125) and a EMPI 31-3011 Fuel pump block off plate. (yeah I know its a cheap electric fuel pump) My question is, does the Thing already have an ignition On fuse line from the fuse box? Can I just get under there with my test light and find a hot line with the ignition on and run a line from there to the hot side of my fuel pump? That way the fuel pump only runs with the car on, right? The Bravex Fuel pump only pulls 1 amp of power so popping a fuse should not be an issue, right? Is my thinking way off here?
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jeffrey8164 
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Joined: January 06, 2018
Posts: 3815
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:40 am Post subject: Re: Electric fuel pump |
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| Serpent7 wrote: |
| I have a 73 VW Thing and I bought a very cheap, Bravex inline electric fuel pump (EP125) and a EMPI 31-3011 Fuel pump block off plate. (yeah I know its a cheap electric fuel pump) My question is, does the Thing already have an ignition On fuse line from the fuse box? Can I just get under there with my test light and find a hot line with the ignition on and run a line from there to the hot side of my fuel pump? That way the fuel pump only runs with the car on, right? The Bravex Fuel pump only pulls 1 amp of power so popping a fuse should not be an issue, right? Is my thinking way off here? |
The reason for running it through a control relay is that you want it to stop pumping when the engine isn't turning. For instance if someone rear ends you. With the key still on you are still trying to pump fuel.
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Serpent7
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Joined: May 26, 2008
Posts: 410
Location: Temple Hills, MD.
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| Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:56 am Post subject: Re: Electric fuel pump |
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| jeffrey8164 wrote: |
| Serpent7 wrote: |
| I have a 73 VW Thing and I bought a very cheap, Bravex inline electric fuel pump (EP125) and a EMPI 31-3011 Fuel pump block off plate. (yeah I know its a cheap electric fuel pump) My question is, does the Thing already have an ignition On fuse line from the fuse box? Can I just get under there with my test light and find a hot line with the ignition on and run a line from there to the hot side of my fuel pump? That way the fuel pump only runs with the car on, right? The Bravex Fuel pump only pulls 1 amp of power so popping a fuse should not be an issue, right? Is my thinking way off here? |
The reason for running it through a control relay is that you want it to stop pumping when the engine isn't turning. For instance if someone rear ends you. With the key still on you are still trying to pump fuel. |
Agreed, but running it to a "key on only" portion where the fuses are, you would just turn the car off in a accident, right? Is that the same way a control relay would work?
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Zed999
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Joined: March 04, 2018
Posts: 1244
Location: UK
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| Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 12:50 pm Post subject: Re: Electric fuel pump |
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If you were conscious, no broken arms and thinking straight. That's the point of automating it.
I have mine like the FI buses - one relay kicks the pump in when the starter is turning, triggered from the starter spade. One triggered from the alt light wire when the engine is running. |
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jeffrey8164
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Joined: January 06, 2018
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Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:07 am Post subject: Re: Electric fuel pump |
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http://revolutionelectronics.com/Fuel_Pump.html
This is what I’m using.
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Turning owners into mechanics since 1938.
“Let he that is without oil throw the first rod”
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Serpent7
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Joined: May 26, 2008
Posts: 410
Location: Temple Hills, MD.
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| Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:59 am Post subject: Re: Electric fuel pump |
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| Zed999 wrote: |
If you were conscious, no broken arms and thinking straight. That's the point of automating it.
I have mine like the FI buses - one relay kicks the pump in when the starter is turning, triggered from the starter spade. One triggered from the alt light wire when the engine is running. |
Zed... I'm prob. asking a dumb question here, but in that same scenario how would a relay act any differently? It will continue to pump fuel with the motor running and being unconscious, or broken arms, or not thinking straight, correct? Or am I missing something? Im not understanding how a relay works differently than connecting it to an (in line fuse) ignition on switch?
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jeffrey8164
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Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:09 am Post subject: Re: Electric fuel pump |
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The relays in this application require a pulsed signal to operate. No signal or a constant signal and the relay doesn’t relay.
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Volkswagen!
Turning owners into mechanics since 1938.
“Let he that is without oil throw the first rod”
(Compression 8.7:1) |
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Serpent7
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Joined: May 26, 2008
Posts: 410
Location: Temple Hills, MD.
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| Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:14 am Post subject: Re: Electric fuel pump |
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| jeffrey8164 wrote: |
| The relays in this application require a pulsed signal to operate. No signal or a constant signal and the relay doesn’t relay. |
Thank you for the quick lesson... I also looked up Why Relay and got a few answers!
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jeffrey8164
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| Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 1:11 pm Post subject: Re: Electric fuel pump |
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It’s a sound idea but I still ran a hot down to the pump so if there is a problem I can test the pump directly without having to go through a bunch of rigmarole.
It’s my first time with an electric fuel pump setup so I’m leery.
At least it’s not computer controlled.
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Volkswagen!
Turning owners into mechanics since 1938.
“Let he that is without oil throw the first rod”
(Compression 8.7:1) |
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Serpent7
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Joined: May 26, 2008
Posts: 410
Location: Temple Hills, MD.
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| Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:53 am Post subject: Re: Electric fuel pump |
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| jeffrey8164 wrote: |
It’s a sound idea but I still ran a hot down to the pump so if there is a problem I can test the pump directly without having to go through a bunch of rigmarole.
It’s my first time with an electric fuel pump setup so I’m leery.
At least it’s not computer controlled. |
Truth... This is my first time wiring up an electric fuel pump also. I have no problems taking the time to do it right the first time as long as i am understanding what I am doing. I ordered an cheap Brendex electric fuel pump, an EMPI block off plate, an Bosch relay and an waterproof (Amazon) relay. I can pick up fuel line and clamps from a local Pep Boys. I plan on doing the install this Sunday (2 days from now). I'm installing it on a slammed, '73 Type 181 (Thing) so I'm not sure if the Type 181 has any different install strategies or locations different than a Bug. I'm very confident in my abilities. My only concern is the weather cooperating. Its been sorta hot on the East Coast in the US; 97* 2 days ago. I will document, take pics and post here on successful completion. I will run an single, power line from the battery to the front of the car, mount the Relay somewhere safe and not an eyesore. and wire up the Relay close to the fuel lines and then install my fuel pump under my fuel tank somewhere without having to remove the tank. This is my goal and may have to change a few things around to get everything installed correctly.
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1997 Honda Shadow
1979 Kawasaki KZ1000
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DerrickfromNC1
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Joined: October 24, 2008
Posts: 1300
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:23 am Post subject: Re: Electric fuel pump |
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I have a 67 bus with a great running 69x88tw engine...my only problem is that due to other projects the bus may not get cranked for 3-4weeks at a time. This usually means that my 40HPMX(3rd gen) carbs are bone dry requiring up to 30sec of crank time to fire up.
I’m thinking about converting to a electric fuel pump and adding a revolution fuel pump controller. My question is could I add a toggle switch to energize the fuel pump to let it run maybe 10sec or so just enough to partially fill the fuel bowls b4 startup. Electrics is not my area of expertise and I was wondering if I energized the fuel pump via toggle switch which is already wired to the pump controller which runs a wire to my tach lead(coil?) would I be sending current elsewhere causing another potential issue?
I would prefer a setup where I just turn the key to the on position let it energize the electric pump then after startup it converts to the pulse signal.
Thanks |
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