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It Works! Subaru Engine and Transmission in fiberglass buggy
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Original Manx
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 3:11 am    Post subject: It Works! Subaru Engine and Transmission in fiberglass buggy Reply with quote

Well it's an epic day today .... after 2 years of development we now know it works. For sure. It drives. And it's awesome.

Thought I'd start a new thread about these boxes and conversions as my 4WD Manx one was getting full of discussion about the topic and should really be about the Manx.

The test reversed 5 speed Subaru was fitted to a Sharpbuilt V2 buggy here in Sydney, powered by an EJ25 quad cam naturally aspirated. This motor puts out around 160hp standard. This motor runs a standard ECU and the transmission has been converted to 2WD and shortened so that it fits into the pan without cutting the torsion bar.

The box I built as a test transmission houses the original Impreza gears, the weakest gearset I can fit, just to see how it holds up in this application. The buggy is a LWB buggy which is licensed for the street and should come in just under 1000kgs (2100lbs) or so.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I used a Subaru cable operated transmission as opposed to hydraulic transmission just to retain the original clutch cable and bowden tube in the test buggy. I could have used a Subaru hydraulically operated transmission converted for cable use with my adaptor, but no need at this time.

We fitted a 3.9 final ratio reversed ring and pinion to this setup as it was the first one I produced, this is the standard WRX 2000 ratio. The owner of the buggy had wanted a different ratio more like 4.4 because of his tall tyres and sand dune driving.....but we needed to get this done and driving. More ratios will be trialled in this setup soon.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Here's the engine and box in place

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Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The simple shifter connection, 2 tubes welded to 2 plates and bolted together

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Here's how well it sits underneath, Subaru motor is fitted with a shortened sump

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


CV joint clearance to frame horns

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The buggy was fired up and taken for a long drive around the block tonight. The owner commented to me that he was surprised that the 3.9 ratio seemed quite good actually, with 4th gear 60kph at 1600 revs.

He also commented that the cable clutch with bowden tube worked well and softly, no problems at all. He made some bowden tube holders to fit on top of the Subaru transmission as you can see from the photo.

The gearbox selected all 5 gears and reverse but he did comment that the sideways gate selection was shorter than his old 6 rib kombi box. Forward and backward was fine. We will try some different width plates and see if this makes the sideways movement to select gates a bit larger.

I'll update this post with some more closeups in the next few days and hopefully a video real soon so you can see it going through the gears. Very Happy
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Letterman7
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 3:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been following your build threads for a while, and I'm still very impressed. The solid mounting of the shifter has me guessing though; should there be a little wiggle room there for chassis flex? I'm only guessing since the VW design has the rubber bush on the connector.
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Original Manx
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 4:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When we try some different thickness plates we'll sandwich some rubber between the plates to isolate the shifter a bit more and judge what effect that has.
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nightmanx11
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

60KPH in 4th gear. about 37MPH quite impressive
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BL3Manx
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can see the Subaru trans puts the engine higher than a VW transaxle and gives lots of clearance under the exhaust.

It looks like the engine all fits behind the rear seat panel. Did he have to make any cuts/intrusions in the fiberglass to clear the engine?
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hottarod
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

37 mph at 1600 rpms is pretty good. It should run up to around 100 in 4th gear and you still have the over drive so what might the top end really be?
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didget69
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hottarod wrote:
37 mph at 1600 rpms is pretty good. It should run up to around 100 in 4th gear and you still have the over drive so what might the top end really be?


Tire size will affect this reading as well - what size tires are on buggy for this test?

bnc
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Original Manx
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tyres are 10.5/31/15 on the test buggy. Will reconfirm rpms/speed in each gear tomorrow with a bit of luck.

Yes there was some (minimal) cutting of fiberglass in the bottom of the storage area behind the rear seats. This buggy has a lift kit, we think with a 3 inch lift kit it would have cleared everything and not needed any cutting. Obviously different buggy styles will have different measurements and angles of things.
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GS guy
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great looking conversion, this will no doubt become the "hot ticket" for anyone doing a Suby engine swap!

If it were me I'd be adding in some extra bracing underneath from the new engine mounting plate to the frame horns, plus some kind of triangulation up to the shock mounts (Kafer bar of some sorts). Not a whole lot supporting everything at the back of the car, especially in a buggy!

Looking forward to the video! Very Happy

Jeff
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BL3Manx
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think he has a couple tubes that come down and support the rear of the engine from the roll cage.

I know they have some ill considered laws against special construction vehicles in Australia, but I'd really like to see a swb buggy with a Subaru 4WD and rear engine, with A-arm suspension on a tube chassis.
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Original Manx
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BL3Manx wrote:
I think he has a couple tubes that come down and support the rear of the engine from the roll cage.

I know they have some ill considered laws against special construction vehicles in Australia, but I'd really like to see a swb buggy with a Subaru 4WD and rear engine, with A-arm suspension on a tube chassis.


BL3Manx - time for you to build one methinks.
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Original Manx
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK did some more testing and we were a little out the other day in our rush.

4th gear at 2,000rpm does 60kph or 37mph.
5th gear at 2,000rpm does 80kph or 50mph

Box hasn't blown up yet...!!!
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Original Manx
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's the video we made of the test buggy today. EJ25, entry level 5 speed subie box, 31" tyres, 3.9 final drive ratio. Pulls nice and strongly without vibration in every gear.


Link

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BlueV2
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a video (and some scintillating commentary) of me driving my buggy to work this morning. It certainly is nicer to drive and from my point of view has been worth the effort to do the testing and some development work. I am getting pretty good now at pulling the motor and box out of this thing Smile



Link
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vincent9993
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great video, thanks for posting.

I'm not sure I cought the where or what noise you are refering to in the video. Can you elaborate?

Also, I'm not sure what the speed limits and law enforcement is like on your side of the pond, but I'd really like to see some footage of 90-125km/h. We drive our buggy long distance and I cruise at 115km/h (71-72mph) to make sure I don't get killed on the freeway.

Great job!
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Original Manx
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi there, there is a little bit of 'singing' from the crownwheel at approx 85kph when you let off the power - the 'coast side'. There is no noise on the power side when you're accelerating. When the roof and windows are all up on the buggy you can hear it a little (because it's such a noise amplifier) but without roof or sides you can't hear anything.

Really it's just us trying to eliminate any possible noise from the drivetrain.

We lapped the gears together on the machine for some time to give the smoothest finish possible and this eliminated 99% of the singing.

Speed limits on that freeway where we made the video was 100kph but there are places where we can do 110 legally. Some more videos will be made over the next week at higher speeds before this box goes into an EJ22 beetle.
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BlueV2
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't tell anyone, but I did run it up to 120 kph this morning on the way to work, but I didn't take any video of it. Beautifull day in Sydney today so I drove with the roof off....and it was awesome !!!
Certainly with the roof off you cant hear any noises from anything mechanical.....but the race with the Kawasaki 1000 (motor bike) was fun.....but I lost Embarassed

To be honest, any video I take over 100 kph is not really going to show much other than the motor can push it that fast. All you will hear is a lot of wind noise from the roof.....but I will see if I can do that tomorrow morning and post it up for you.
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JustBuggy
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Will your reversed ring work in the automatic trans?
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