1977 Fuel Injected Standard Project Page

[dopeboat]

Hi All, I figured it was time to create a thread for my beetle project, instead of inundating this forum with short threads with questions.

The car in question is a 1977 Standard Type I Sunroof, Fuel Injected, originally Bahama Blue, with x27,000 on the odometer. Uncertain where it came from, but it's a New England car now.

I bought this beetle, "running", in August of 2023. Nothing about it is in particularly good condition, but the price was right, so here I am. I'm a long-time tinkerer and shadetree mechanic. I'm an engineer in my professional life, and vintage Volkswagens are particularly fascinating to me because of just how much functionality VW crammed into their cars with relatively little mechanical complexity. Earlier this year I brought eight VW's belonging to a close friend from barn-find to running condition for an event he was hosting. I guess I got bit by the VW bug in the process, and just had to go out and buy my own.

This car has had an unknown number of owners before me. The previous owner was a teenager who did a lot of hack teenager-type stuff on it. Not hating, I've certainly been there, but I want to bring this car back to "nice" Sunday driver condition, so I have a lot of interesting work to undo and neglect to remedy.

Here's the threads I've already posted about this car, for reference:

Fifth Injector Voltage: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=787254&highlight=

Fuel Injected Engine Tin: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=786819&highlight=

New Starter Grinding: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=785791&highlight=

Scaly Carbon Buildup: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=784409&highlight=

I'll post a slew of pictures in a follow-up post. Thanks in advance to all the wizened minds who I'm sure will help me through this!
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'77 FI Bahama Blue Type 1

[dopeboat]

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'77 FI Bahama Blue Type 1

[dopeboat]

A few fuel injector related questions:

I pulled my injectors to run them through the ultrasonic. I removed the inlet screens, a couple of them have holes. Does anyone have a source for these?

Of the four injectors, only one of them is a genuine VW part. They also have three different part numbers: 280 150 112, 280 150 116, and 280 150 11? I list the third one as a question mark because the final digit is illegible. This injector is the genuine VW one. Upon testing them each after cleaning, it also has a significantly different spray pattern than the other three, and upon visual inspection, has a differently-shaped pintle tip (pictured below, but hard to see). Any ideas on what’s going on here? Does the final digit on the PN denote something important, or are the injectors interchangeable?

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'77 FI Bahama Blue Type 1

[APPLEGREENVW]

That 77 was for sale, for a long time. Looks like it finally, went to a good home.
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Parts for sale https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/search.php?username=APPLEGREENVW

02/76 Beetle sedan

[dopeboat]

Replacing my temperature sensor 2 as the wire connection at the sensor was frayed and angry-looking, and I noticed this little extension nut on the sensor. Is this stock? (Sensor pictured is obviously the new one).

Seems like something that could have been installed to fool the sensor into thinking the head is cooler than it actually is.

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'77 FI Bahama Blue Type 1

[Franklinstower]

yes, that extension is stock and not some method fooling the ecu. If I remember correctly, there was a TSB adding the extender, providing a longer rich mixture until the engine is fully warmed up.

Make sure there is no corrosion in the head were that screws in.

here is mine:

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'89 Westy - EJ25/22 Frank 4.44 5mt
'75 Miami Blue Sunroof FI Standard Bug

[MuzzcoVW]

[Root_Werks]

FI Standard Bugs are rare, nice find!

While you have your injectors out, see if you can have them cleaned and tested. Don't have much thought about getting replacements.

Even though the color isn't original, I like it!

-Dan
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When I set my timing, why do I flush, then take a pee?

[VW_Jimbo]

I will be following along! I have a little spot in my heart for 77 sunroof Bugs. That last one I semirestored was the best driving Bug I have ever been in! I miss it! I should have never sold it.

I had a thread on here, that I kept up to date. Might be worth a look. Think there are several fuel injected tid bits in there! And it was my shortest build thread, like 9 pages.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=711477

Good luck!
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Jimbo

There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

[APPLEGREENVW]

[VW_Jimbo]

[MuzzcoVW]

[dopeboat]

[dopeboat]

[unclewede]

subbed, I have the same vehicle. So bummed the sunroof doesn't currently work.

About to embark on an engine upgrade. New jugs, pistons, heads. That will all lead to new fuel lines, probably new injectors, possibly new rear wiring harness, heat channels. . . . rabbit hole entry to commence in 3, 2, 1.

[dopeboat]

[unclewede]

[quote="dopeboat"]

[dopeboat]

Update: I got the renewed injectors reinstalled, and replaced all the fuel lines in the back end of the car while I was at it. I did have a persistent issue with the return line leaking where it meets the hardline coming out of the frame rail, but all seems to be copacetic now.

I replaced all of the vacuum lines on the engine, and I have an intake boot kit standing by in the event I find those are leaking.

My injector connectors were shot, some of the terminals would pull right out of the back of the connector, so I replaced all four (fifth injector connector seems fine).

I retorqued the lower head bolts all around, as I'd previously only snugged them up on the passenger side, having been totally loose. Then adjusted the valves and replaced the valve cover gaskets, which were petrified and leaking all over the heater boxes.

I adjusted the points to 0.018", started the engine, and set timing with a strobe. The engine was previously timed VERY hot, probably 15° BTDC. I was only able to time it down to 5° BTDC before I started to have issues. The manual asks for 5° ATDC, though, so I'm a little perplexed there. Would a vacuum leak cause me to not be able to time it down? See below a video of the engine starting and running when timed as such. It sounds like a very happy VW to me. I also checked the dwell and it falls within spec, though I can't remember the exact figure off the top of my head.

The next day I returned to the garage and was unable to start the engine. One step forward, two steps back! I checked for spark and fuel, both of which were present. I had a feeling the timing must somehow be an issue, so I pulled my dwell/voltage meter back out and checked static timing, which was right on where it should be.

While cranking with my remote starter, though, I noticed out of the corner of my eye the voltage meter drop to around 6v while cranking, measured at the negative side of the coil. That certainly doesn't seem like enough to drive all of the FI components, but could be wrong there. I pulled one of the injector connectors and stuck a noid light on it to see if it was even getting voltage while cranking. It lit very dimly. In retrospect, I should have just used a multimeter to see exactly how much voltage it was getting, but I didn't. I stuck the battery on the charger and we'll see today if a freshly charged battery makes a difference. FYI the battery is brand new.

HOWEVER, I have a sneaking suspicion this might have something to do with the starter. In a previous thread, a few people had suggested to use an autostick starter instead of the proper manual starter for the car, given that it allows you to skip the absolute faff of dealing with the starter bushing. The starter hasn't given me issues, but it occurs to me that I didn't upsize the battery. Is it possible that the beefier-than-stock starter is drawing too much amperage and starving the FI components? I do also get a very nasty half-second grinding noise when the engine starts, before I release the key, which I attribute to the starter being non-stock, but that's an issue for another day.

Additionally, if anyone is still actually reading at this stage, I noticed in the course of troubleshooting the no-start condition this time that my axial crankshaft end play has got to be at least 40-50 thousandths. Yikes. I knew this engine was probably due for a rebuild at some point, but I didn't think it had been quite that badly abused.


Link

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'77 FI Bahama Blue Type 1

[busdaddy]

Why didn't you change the intake boots when you had the intake off to get at the upper head nuts|?, you did retorque all 8 nuts on each side,,, right?

Don't bother with that -5* idle unless you are sure the vacuum can and distributor work properly and all the hoses are on the right nipples, timing at speed with the hoses off is the only safe way to time a 40+ year old system. For now time it to 7.5* BTDC with both hoses off at idle to get it into the ballpark.

Axial play?, how are you measuring this?

Have you removed both battery cables and cleaned both ends as well as where they attach to the car?. How about the braided strap between the transmission nose and the frame horn?, if any of those are not making a good connection no battery in the world will solve a weak cranking symptom.
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[dopeboat]