Tube notcher questions

[pikeman48]

I am getting ready to spring for a tube notcher. Who makes a good one? Any recommendations, or hints, tips,etc? I have a floor model drill press to run it. Thanks,Paul
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if it has wheels or tits,it will make your life difficult!!
1962 type 1-gone,but not forgotten
1971 type 1 vert-sold
sand rail-stripped and scrapped
1968 Empi Sportster

[chucko]

i went with a JD2 notchmaster from van Sant enterprises.. they have a good selection, they are kind of pricey but you get what you pay for.

[Chad1376]

I bought 2 HF notchers to build one cage. I had to shim the clamp to get the tube centered on the saw. Even after carefully aligning and bolting to my drill press and frequent lubrication, the bushing wore out (hence the second one)..oh wait, you said you want a "good one"

In all fairness, at least half of my cuts went in the scrap pile, so it's kind of like I did two cages worth of notching.
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See progress on my "Free Thing" here
http://1973vwthingproject.blogspot.com/

[Garner]

Regardless of what kind of notcher you're using, you're gonna have to get a feel for cutting and shaping fishmouths by hand, unless you're making some super-boring tube projects with all 90* joints.

I assume you're in the market for a hole-saw type notcher. These are very useful for notches from 90* to about 50* intersections, but returns diminish on any shallower angle. Also, at steeper angles most hole saws aren't deep enough to make a notch in a single pass, so you may have to stop and cut out the discard part of the notch half way through so it doesn't bottom out in the hole saw.

The best thing you can do for yourself with one of these type notchers is to cut your tube to length so you're only cutting 2 little half moons instead of a complete circle. That way you're cutting two clean little notches instead of trying to saw through the entire thickness of the tube. Less time, less heat, longer life from your hole saws. Also, its fairly obvious, but use plenty of cutting fluid and a slow speed. And then make sure you clean off all the fluid for clean welds.

Remember, the notcher is designed to make a notch in the center of a straight piece of tube. So, if you need to notch a tube on a bend, you probably won't be able to rely solely on the notcher. Also, a drill press is nice for shallow or 90* notches on relatively small and manageable pieces of tubing, but you're probably not going to be able to get that 12' long B-hoop with 4 bends jigged up easily on your drill press crammed up against the wall. 99% of the time I clamp the notcher to the tube which I secure in a swiveling vice on the corner of a moveable work bench.

The biggest hurdles to learning to make clean notches is getting all of your measurements right, especially when your notching a tube that comes in on a compound angle on a curve or into a node with other tubes. There's definately a learning curve, and you will be relying a lot on an angle grinder to doctor almost every notch to fit properly.

So, back you your original question, the best notcher will only get you about 90% there 75% of the time, with the rest being performed by your trusty angle grinder. I have made notches in the several hundreds using 1) an angle grinder and guess work, 2) an angle grinder and templates from a tube miter software program, 3) a homemade hole saw jig on a drill press, 4) a harbor freight notcher (joint jigger), 5) a holesaw on a Bridgeport machinging mill, and, 5) using an industrial quality hole saw notcher like the ones that weigh in around $200+.

The big difference in quality between the cheap notchers and the pricey ones relies on the difference in the materials, strength, and longevity of the jigger. Cheap ones: brass bushings with a smaller surface area, expensive ones: long ass needle bearings. Also, size and strength of the clamps and hardware. Cheap ones wear out faster and get sloppier, and may require some shimming/adjustment out of the box to notch straight in the first place. Regardless of the quality, I always shoot the shaft that turns the hole saw with the cutting fluid as I am cutting, to minimize both friction and wear.

If you have an awesome shop packed with the best tools and an unlimited budget, buy the best notcher you can afford. And you will make the same quality fishmouths as you will with a cheap Harbor Freight one. If you're scrimping to finish your Baja and balance your tools/bug parts/beer budget get a cheap one and make it work. At least with the cheap one you won't be so frustrated when the notches don't come out perfect on your first day. If you know what you're doing and will use the tool daily or weekly, buy the nicer one and enjoy it every time you use it.

I have one of each and cut 10 out of 12 of the notches on my last bumper by hand. Why? Because they were all multi-angle nodes, shallow angles, on bends, etc (and I've done a million of them). That's where your time will go; not on the freebie notches which are close to 90*.

A lot of good-old-boy race car builders have never seen a tube notcher. Do some searching on the net and you'll uncover the time-tested chop-saw method, which will get you there if you know what you're doing (but is not necessarily comforting to the new fabricator).

Not proud of the welds on this, but you'll notice in the second pic that only one of those notches could be made in one shot on a notcher (if you measured and lined it up properly):

[pikeman48]

thanks for the input,Guys
_________________
if it has wheels or tits,it will make your life difficult!!
1962 type 1-gone,but not forgotten
1971 type 1 vert-sold
sand rail-stripped and scrapped
1968 Empi Sportster

[towd]

Garner
hit it right on the nose I have old pro tools punch type maybe 20 yrs,, a H/F maybe 10/12 yrs. The H'f has been used on well over a 100 sand frames, angle grinder,,, and a table belt sander,, chop used only outside and on thick steel, band saw for tubing..

Th H/f was ahair off center, the bolts were replaced the 2nd day at this point the bushing are getting worn,, they can be replaced. Th eguy that taugh me how to bend tubing used a pair of hand snips , cut a V then used a 90 degree grinder.

beside using lots of oil, get your drill press down to it lowest speed.. The one I use for the hole saw, I had to change out the pulleys, I ended up at around 500 rpm,, for cutting steel you want it as slow as you can get it..

[earthquake]

Check out this web sight, They have a cool progam that you put in your angles and tube sizes and print out a pattern that you then cut by hand.

http://metalgeek.com/static/cope.pcgi

I also have a JD squared notcher

Casey
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74 CLASS 11 LOOK-A-LIKE
65 pan [I haven't decided what to do with it]
69 DUNE BUGGY
79 INTERNATIONAL SCOUT II
05 SCION XB SERIES RELEASE 2[#437]

Some where in Kenya, A village is missing its Idiot!

"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, there would be a shortage of sand in 5 years"

[BugZyla.com]

I know thias is an old thread, but the Williams notcher is worth the $$$. I tried the hole saw style notchers and they wear out fast and cost more to fix than to replace most of the time. I have had this notcher for for abour 6 years now and use it daily, and wouldnt go back to a hole saw style notcher.

http://www.lowbucktools.com/notcher.html
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Daryll http://www.azbaja.com P.R.

http://www.bugzyla.com

"Why is there Braille on a Drive Thru ATM?"

[rx2buzzbox]

I've done many noches in the last year and have found alot of what garner has written to be funny as I have found out alot of these issues from first hand experience. In my opinion the best way to hand finish or hand notch is a die grinder with a tungsten carbide burr. I've had a large cylindrical ball end one for years (chipped like hell) and I use it for many finishing jobs. They are initially expensive, but eat steel far faster than grinding and works radial jobs alot better, at least as far as my skills are concerned.

With the quality vs cheap notchers, I got the hang of notching with a cheap one, then imported a JD2 one once I had a clue. Due to the brass sleeve tolerances the runout at the holesaw was terrible even from new on the cheapy I bought. Building a frame will take many many many many notches and the tn100 is going strong.

[earthquake]

I have gotten over 200 cuts out of a Starret hole-saw, you cant just go plunging in with it. most people I have seen wind up bending them by tring to make the start to fast, if you find a heavy washer that is slightly smaller then the hole-saw you are using and put it on top of the hole-saw between the shaft it will stiffen up the saw so they wont bend as easy, I have even tacked them with a TIG welder. Use a good cutting oil and get your feed rate right and you will be surprised how many cuts you will get.
I had a can of spray cutting oil that worked great but I cant remember who made it.

Casey
_________________
74 CLASS 11 LOOK-A-LIKE
65 pan [I haven't decided what to do with it]
69 DUNE BUGGY
79 INTERNATIONAL SCOUT II
05 SCION XB SERIES RELEASE 2[#437]

Some where in Kenya, A village is missing its Idiot!

"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, there would be a shortage of sand in 5 years"

[joescoolcustoms]

That is a good looking bumper Garner made!

I have the HF unit and have made 4 or 5 cages with it and no problems other than the incorrect alignment out of the box.

I could make every notch for that bumper Garner made with my HF notcher. On the shallow angle cuts, I cut until the hole saw bottoms out, stop, cut off the cut portion with a cut off wheel, then go back to cutting with the notcher, repeat as needed until the full depth of the cut is made. I have made cuts on compound bends just by shimming the work in the tubing holder. It is all about alignment.

When I wear out the brass bushings, I will drill it out and press in needle bearings and tapp it for a zerk fitting so I can grease it.
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The early bird might get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone

Member of Wagenfolks
http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/870707.jpg
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=479740

[Mr. Unpopular]

I also use the HF notcher, I've worked on several buggies, even built the whole cage for a circle track car (1-3/4" tubing, and LOTS of door bars). Never had a problem with it eating blades. I use cutting oil and go a little slow.

Now, with that said, I'm MIG welding my joints, so I like a bit of a gap to keep the weld from building up. I wouldn't recommend this notcher to anyone TIG welding because they need little or no gap, but if you're serious enough to TIG weld a cage, you probably aren't shopping at HF for a notcher.
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[joescoolcustoms]