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twister5voy
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2010
Posts: 26
Location: Hoquiam,wa
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 Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 1:10 pm Post subject: Buying coolant conditioner |
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I plan on doing a flush and fill of the coolant system and decided to use the subaru coolant conditioner, unfortunately we have no subaru dealer here in town. Does anyone know where you can buy this online?
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1985 Vanagon 1.9
1994 Cavailer |
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erdonline
Samba Member
Joined: September 26, 2004
Posts: 943
Location: CT
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 1:30 pm Post subject: Coolant system conditioner |
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I've seen a few places sell it online (but I can't remember who right now) but they sell it for a huge markup over what Subaru sells it for, like maybe four or five times the price.
I would call a few dealers and see how much it would be to mail you some.
Ed in CT
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'85 Vanagon Westfalia
'84 Vanagon 7-passenger
'98 Mexican air-cooled Beetle |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50352
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Your FLAPS may either carry it or should be able to get it for you. |
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r.e.wing_fc3s
Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2010
Posts: 591
Location: Vanagon Capitol USA: Bellingham, WA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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| i havent heard of getting oem parts through a flaps. i live in bellingham and subaru sells it here for like no more then 2-3 bucks a bottle. id be happy to send you some. |
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Petervw
Samba Member
Joined: July 04, 2005
Posts: 1020
Location: Sarnia Ont. Canada
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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| from around your area ..I just bought some parts off them a few minutes ago... http://www.subarugenuineparts.com/ part # in the US... SOA635071 ..put in 2 bottles for that large cooling system.. |
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GeorgeL
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Joined: January 16, 2006
Posts: 7346
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50352
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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| r.e.wing_fc3s wrote: |
| i havent heard of getting oem parts through a flaps. i live in bellingham and subaru sells it here for like no more then 2-3 bucks a bottle. id be happy to send you some. |
I have seen bottles of the Suby stuff sitting on the counter at more than one FLAPS. Any decent FLAPS can get you a good variety of OEM stuff. |
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DaveCA
Samba Member
Joined: April 19, 2010
Posts: 37
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r.e.wing_fc3s
Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2010
Posts: 591
Location: Vanagon Capitol USA: Bellingham, WA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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| yeah not many truly local independent auto supply stores here. napa/schucks o reilly. ive never seen the stuff there but i haven't asked to order that exact product either. usually when i do go to those stores and ask for something specific for a certain car its often a "dealer item," and they send me on my way. |
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insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 7:01 am Post subject: |
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Bar's Leak Heavy Duty, purple liquid and pellets in one bottle, available at WalMart $4
Subaru Sealant at dealer is $3.
I prefer the Bar's but Subie works well too. |
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vw54john
Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2004
Posts: 147
Location: Cheshire, CT USA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:34 am Post subject: |
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maybe a silly question, but what is a FLAPS
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Regards, John
'54 Strato Silver Oval |
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13thstreetgti
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 39
Location: Cleveland, OH
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| Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:50 am Post subject: |
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| vw54john wrote: |
| maybe a silly question, but what is a FLAPS |
Friendly Local Auto Parts Store (think AutoZone, Advanced Auto Parts, etc...) |
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CTB
Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2010
Posts: 152
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| Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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WHOA Whoa whoa...you mean my dream of putting an EJ25 in my bus means I'll simply be putting ANOTHER engine that eats head gaskets in there? Wow, that's a major downer. Please tell me they got it sorted out. Maybe the extra hp over the EJ22 isn't worth it?
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twister5voy
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2010
Posts: 26
Location: Hoquiam,wa
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| Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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| CTB wrote: |
| WHOA Whoa whoa...you mean my dream of putting an EJ25 in my bus means I'll simply be putting ANOTHER engine that eats head gaskets in there? Wow, that's a major downer. Please tell me they got it sorted out. Maybe the extra hp over the EJ22 isn't worth it? |
Doesn't Subaru require it only as kind of a safety net for themselves?
Someone with more knowledge can step in........... now.
P.S. Left a message at the dealer, never heard back. Checked Schucks and they couldn't get it. just got some generic stuff.
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1985 Vanagon 1.9
1994 Cavailer |
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GeorgeL
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2006
Posts: 7346
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| Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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| CTB wrote: |
| WHOA Whoa whoa...you mean my dream of putting an EJ25 in my bus means I'll simply be putting ANOTHER engine that eats head gaskets in there? Wow, that's a major downer. Please tell me they got it sorted out. Maybe the extra hp over the EJ22 isn't worth it? |
Wasserboxer people also found that the Subaru coolant conditioner was good for keeping their head gaskets in good shape.
Certain EJ-25s had head gasket problems. Subaru revised the head gaskets to fix the problem. Since most folks replace the timing belt and water pump before installing their engine it might be prudent to go a bit further and replace the head gaskets as well if the engine is from the affected time period.
http://allwheeldriveauto.com/subaru-head-gasket-problems-explained/ |
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r.e.wing_fc3s
Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2010
Posts: 591
Location: Vanagon Capitol USA: Bellingham, WA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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| the ej25 head gasket issue effects most of the motors that are potential donor candidates. this motor was designed poorly for the us market exclusively i think. the 2.0 and 2.2 were the standard na motors in the rest o the world. the 2.5 turbo found in the forester xt and sti etc uses a different closed deck design. the head gaskets have not been an issue with these as they were designed to be used throughout the range in all markets. the coolant conditioner is subarus defacto admition that there is a head gasket issue, just not one their willing to warranty. so you have the conditioner and its low price. |
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GeorgeL
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Joined: January 16, 2006
Posts: 7346
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| Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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| r.e.wing_fc3s wrote: |
| the ej25 head gasket issue effects most of the motors that are potential donor candidates. this motor was designed poorly for the us market exclusively i think. |
There are several versions of the EJ-25 used around the world.
I believe that the gasket issues affects the DOHC EJ25D engines sold in '96-'99 Subaru made a change in the design of the head gasket which caused durability problems. The gasket was redesigned for replacement and for use in '00 and up SOHC models (EJ-251, etc.). |
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DaveCA
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Joined: April 19, 2010
Posts: 37
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| Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 4:25 am Post subject: |
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This is a reliable source of info?
http://allwheeldriveauto.com/subaru-head-gasket-problems-explained/
Maybe I should have read the whole article, but I just happened to chose this paragraph to read...
" On an in-line engine or v engine design, when the vehicle is turned off the fluids such as coolant and oil will drain down to below the head gasket line. On a Subaru with a horizontally opposed engine when you turn the vehicle off the fluids such as the oil and coolant will remain in contact with the head gaskets. If the fluids are not in very good condition, such as outlined above, they will eat away at the head gaskets"
After reading that, I didn't read any more of the article. I cannot believe the author is very knowledgeable of automotive engines... Not that I disbelieve your statement... and I don't think that 150,000+ miles is an unreasnable time to need headgaskets for auto engines with aluminum
head/s. |
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trihartsfield
Samba Member
Joined: April 25, 2010
Posts: 311
Location: Sheridan, MT
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| Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 6:43 am Post subject: |
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Have been following this thread and have a question. Using a coolant conditioner made by/for Subaru can be used in the WBX's to help with maintaining better condition of the head gaskets, is that correct?
If so what is the name of the conditioner, any? I would be interested in adding it to my coolant.
Thanks
Chris
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1971 Transporter-SOLD
1982 Westy Will grow up into a TDI |
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Volksaholic
Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2005
Posts: 1771
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah, USA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:07 am Post subject: |
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| GeorgeL wrote: |
| r.e.wing_fc3s wrote: |
| the ej25 head gasket issue effects most of the motors that are potential donor candidates. this motor was designed poorly for the us market exclusively i think. |
There are several versions of the EJ-25 used around the world.
I believe that the gasket issues affects the DOHC EJ25D engines sold in '96-'99 Subaru made a change in the design of the head gasket which caused durability problems. The gasket was redesigned for replacement and for use in '00 and up SOHC models (EJ-251, etc.). |
I hate to say it, being the owner of 3 vehicles with EJ251 engines now, but based on what I've read on the Subaru forums (outback.org, forester.org, and nasioc.org) this problem isn't resolved. It's better, but the engine will far outlive the head gaskets in a lot of cases. I've got a 2003 Outback 2.5, it's seeping both coolant and oil from the HGs... not so bad that I've felt I need to shut it down and deal with it right away, but enough that I'm watching the coolant and oil carefully. It started at about 135k miles, which is about 10k more miles than my WBX lasted and the PO did HGs on that engine at about 70k or 90k (I can't recall which... but I've got the receipts).
When I did my conversion I opted to change the HGs along with the other engine prep (timing belt and most of the idlers, seals, etc). With luck that will get me 150k miles up the road before I have to do them again.
The non-turbo DOHC engines were notorious for head gasket problems, and one thing that seems consistent based on my research is that when DOHC and WBX HGs fail it's often between the cylinder and water jacket, so you get combustion blow-by into the coolant or coolant seepage into the cylinder. The SOHC failure tends to be to the outside... I haven't seen any sign that I'm mixing coolant and oil, and I haven't seen any indication that combustion gasses are involved at all with my Outback.
For the improved drivability I would do the conversion again. No, the engine's not perfect, but I'd rather have to look forward to doing head gaskets again in 10 years or so and enjoy the power, reliability, and efficiency of my newer engine over that time. Most folks opt to reverse the coolant manifold and replace the timing belt, which means the intake manifold, timing belt cover, and timing belt all has to come off. That's about 1/2 the tear down for head gasket replacement. The fact that the engine is on a stand with no exhaust header connected gets you another 1/4 of the way there... so the head gaskets don't add a lot of labor to the prep.
One other nice thing about the WBX is that it's got push rod tubes instead of the oil return galleys between the heads and cylinders like the Subaru engine. They allow you to leak oil without blowing a head gasket! 
Paul
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