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mycoleptodiscus
Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2005
Posts: 595
Location: St. Paul, MN
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 Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:52 pm Post subject: VW Bus Dyno Reports |
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I finally had my bus run on a dyno. I have about 8k miles on the rebuild
Build details...
1978 type 4 motor
balanced and blueprinted
911 swivel foot valve adjusters
solid lifters
Cromoly pushrods
clearance set to loose zero
Raby cam
Heads rebuilt with larger SS valves
'72-'74 stock exhaust system conversion
Pertronix
Stock timing
87 octane
I think I'll bump up the mixture a bit. Bus drives great. It'll do 80 on the freeway no problem. I was expecting some more hp, but it drives so wonderfully, I have no complaints. Any thoughts?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/44411062@N00/4869133011/
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1978 VW Westfalia
Blueprinted & Balanced 2.0l FI
Automatic Transmission
104,400 miles |
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chabanais
Samba Member
Joined: July 27, 2002
Posts: 4866
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| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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Does that say 57 horses on your ranch at the wheels?
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GeorgeL
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2006
Posts: 7346
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| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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Looks like 57HP. Not bad at the wheels.
You said you're running the valve clearance at zero with solid lifters? |
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Desertbusman
Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2005
Posts: 14655
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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I ran my chromemolys at the normal loose zero for a while also. But then changed to .002. Reason being is that on startup the very first component that gets heat expansion is the exhaust valve. So until the heads heat and expand there might be exhausts not fully closing. Just for a short while at startup. the extra .002" added on to the normal greater running clearances hasn't seemed to be any issue.
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71 Superbug
71 Westy |
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Jake Raby
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Joined: August 23, 2003
Posts: 7433
Location: Aircooled Heaven USA
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| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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The engine is VERY LEAN.. Gget the AFR between 12.5-13.2:1 for peak power and efficiency with cool running.
A full CS combo makes 20HP more than you are seeing on my Dynojet at the rear wheels.. The engine is low on torque which is much more important than HP for a Bus.
Start tuning, its not optimized yet.
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Jake Raby
Raby Engine Development
www.rabyenginedevelopment.com
"I've never given anyone Hell, I just told them the truth and they thought it was Hell" |
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fusername
Samba Member
Joined: March 15, 2006
Posts: 2897
Location: Boston MA
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| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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kinda urpried it will do 80 on the highway with that kind of power. I aume the engine wa warm and all that on the pull? I've never done dyno work before o it kind of mysteriou to me, but I would think that would make more power paed on how it built an the fact you can go that fat
alo I dont have an 5 key
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Need something custom bent up? shoot me an email, maybe we can make it work!
FORSALE: Thrust cut T4 and 1.9 main bearings
| obnoxiousblue wrote: |
| Maybe Ben Pon's ghost comes and vomits NOS stampings for your bus, but not mine! |
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SGKent 
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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the air fuel needs to be richened at idle a tad as that will improve the low end and flatten the curve. Then bump the who range so it is running about 13.5 - 13.9 unless you are in a smog state then just try to flatten the curve where you hold it at 13.8 - 13.9. If you have FI then the mixture is going lean probably because the injectors are maxing out. If it has carbs then come down one air correction jet at a time until the curve is flatter at the high end. 3 air correction jets equal one main. Use the idle mixture to tweak the low end or maybe find a tiny vacuum leak. I probably would burn a one step higher octane just for protection.
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fusername
Samba Member
Joined: March 15, 2006
Posts: 2897
Location: Boston MA
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| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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oh i did mean to ask what CR as well, thanksfor reminding me kent. also do you mind asking what one pull on the dyno ran you? I have never looked to close into it, but I have an engine I am really curious about.
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[email protected]
Need something custom bent up? shoot me an email, maybe we can make it work!
FORSALE: Thrust cut T4 and 1.9 main bearings
| obnoxiousblue wrote: |
| Maybe Ben Pon's ghost comes and vomits NOS stampings for your bus, but not mine! |
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mycoleptodiscus
Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2005
Posts: 595
Location: St. Paul, MN
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| Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 8:57 pm Post subject: Update |
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I knew y'all would ask about the CR. I lost my 3-ring binder with the notes. All I remember is I did the whole syringe injection cylinder volume thing and set it so I could use 87 octane with a margin of safety. I'm running stock FI. The dyno ran $120, a steal for all that useful tuning data. So I move the wiper and bring up the mixture a bit across the board? The idle mix is just that silly bypass screw so I'll close that up a bit as well. Thanks for your thoughts. BTW I have a DD CHT gauge on it so I'm being safe.
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1978 VW Westfalia
Blueprinted & Balanced 2.0l FI
Automatic Transmission
104,400 miles |
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Tcash
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12844
Location: San Jose, California, USA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:22 pm Post subject: VW Bus Dyno Reports |
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http://www.p914.com/p914_hp.htm
| SGKent wrote: |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
I used the older stock graph to create this comparative chart.
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this probably belongs with the above chart. FWIW the 914 GA T4 cams specs are replicated in the "stock" FI webcam 142. I found a NOS stock GA cam a couple of years ago, and when we dialed it, it had the same timing and duration as the 142. Unfortunately I don't know what the numbers are on the 9550.
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| 71_georgia_beetle wrote: |
Well, tech day at Raby's was awesome. Jake was nice enough to open his doors and let the club in for a tech/dyno day. There were engine pulls, muffler mods, dyno and the list goes on and on. The dyno saw action from daily drivers, pro stock bug, a golf cart, Porsche, old Toyota camper and everything in between. Winnie was the first up on the dyno and we all agreed that she did OK for the piss poor set up I have right now (single Weber/009). We'll put her back on the rollers after the duals and SVDA are installed. The pulls were sampled 3rd gear at 5200rpms. This engine has 140psi or more on all cylinders and tuned the best for this set up. If you have this combo then this is what yours would probably look like. Now for a CS and well over double these numbers.
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| richparker wrote: |
Alright alright alright...the run on the dyno was awesome!!! This morning I went back to the sport tuner shop, PSI and put my bus back on their Mustang Dyno. The operator called it the Heartbreaker, cause it measures the actual weight of the vehicle and applys a drum brake to simulate real world driving. He ran it two times up to 4800 each time. The bus held together and the Numbers were good!
75 Hp with 107 FPT. Looks like peak performance is at 4400 rpm and it drops off after that. I have a video, I gotta figure out how to post it.
He was able to lay this run over my last run, with my 2109, on the same graph. The dotted lines are my last run. The curve looks way better, I'm gonna say that's from removing the Chinese 009 and installing a real one.
Pic of my 2175cc
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| WendyArmbuster wrote: |
Here are my dyno results, at the wheels, after adjusting the AFM per SGKent's instructions on the thread where he measures the weight to open the AFM door. Adjusting the AFM was hard, even with the fancy A/F meter on the dyno computer. The tiniest adjustment on the wiper made huge differences, and even after reading and reading about AFM adjustment, adjusting the cog seemed to always do exactly the opposite of what I expected. Finally I got it so that my ratios were what they should be. I was running quite rich before I (re)adjusted it on the dyno. The only cog notch that would work was one tooth off from 60 grams.
Do these numbers at the wheel seem reasonable? The A/F ratio was about 12.7 during this test. There's a little glitch that pops it up to 13.7 at the end there. |
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richparker
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Joined: November 24, 2011
Posts: 6982
Location: Durango, CO
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NASkeet
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 2958
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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| Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 7:31 am Post subject: Re: Update |
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| mycoleptodiscus wrote: |
| I knew y'all would ask about the CR. I lost my 3-ring binder with the notes. All I remember is I did the whole syringe injection cylinder volume thing and set it so I could use 87 octane with a margin of safety. I'm running stock FI. The dyno ran $120, a steal for all that useful tuning data. So I move the wiper and bring up the mixture a bit across the board? The idle mix is just that silly bypass screw so I'll close that up a bit as well. Thanks for your thoughts. BTW I have a DD CHT gauge on it so I'm being safe. |
When you speak of 87 octane, are you talking about the AKI - Anti Knock Index (RON + MON) / 2 octane rating?
http://www.economist.com/blogs/babbage/2012/09/octane-ratings
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating#Difference_between_RON.2C_MON.2C_and_AKI
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thu...atings.jpg
I'm not quite sure how to accurately predict MON ratings, on the basis of RON ratings, which are said to typically differ by 8~12 points. I think the lowest available octane rating in some parts of Europe, is 92 RON, but here in Great Britain, and possibly some other European countries, the lowest is 95 RON; but 98 & 100 RON are also available.
When touring during the mid-to-late-1980s, in Eastern Europe, behind the "Iron Curtain", I came across circa 85 RON petrol, which was intended primarily for the 2-stroke engines installed in Wartburgs and Trabants, which were then quite common.
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Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 8:01 am Post subject: Re: Update |
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| NASkeet wrote: |
| mycoleptodiscus wrote: |
| I knew y'all would ask about the CR. I lost my 3-ring binder with the notes. All I remember is I did the whole syringe injection cylinder volume thing and set it so I could use 87 octane with a margin of safety. I'm running stock FI. The dyno ran $120, a steal for all that useful tuning data. So I move the wiper and bring up the mixture a bit across the board? The idle mix is just that silly bypass screw so I'll close that up a bit as well. Thanks for your thoughts. BTW I have a DD CHT gauge on it so I'm being safe. |
When you speak of 87 octane, are you talking about the AKI - Anti Knock Index (RON + MON) / 2 octane rating?
http://www.economist.com/blogs/babbage/2012/09/octane-ratings
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating#Difference_between_RON.2C_MON.2C_and_AKI
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thu...atings.jpg
I'm not quite sure how to accurately predict MON ratings, on the basis of RON ratings, which are said to typically differ by 8~12 points. I think the lowest available octane rating in some parts of Europe, is 92 RON, but here in Great Britain, and possibly some other European countries, the lowest is 95 RON; but 98 & 100 RON are also available.
When touring during the mid-to-late-1980s, in Eastern Europe, behind the "Iron Curtain", I came across circa 85 RON petrol, which was intended primarily for the 2-stroke engines installed in Wartburgs and Trabants, which were then quite common. |
that is how we calculate it here in the states (R+M)/2).
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1967250s
Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2007
Posts: 2137
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| Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 7:58 pm Post subject: Re: VW Bus Dyno Reports |
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How accurate is your speedo? 80 is over the max cruise speed, too, especially for an automatic ( which is supposed to 74 IIRC ). Most Buses read high; mine reads about about 7 mph high at 65mph. And I am going to bet your valves don't last very long at that clearance, VW recommends .006 cold, for a reason
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16879
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:39 pm Post subject: Re: VW Bus Dyno Reports |
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those graphs are cute. my lawn mower makes more power at the blades 
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Tcash
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12844
Location: San Jose, California, USA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:03 pm Post subject: Re: VW Bus Dyno Reports |
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You have one of these too?
Link
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airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 12722
Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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| Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 11:57 pm Post subject: Re: VW Bus Dyno Reports |
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| 1967250s wrote: |
| And I am going to bet your valves don't last very long at that clearance, VW recommends .006 cold, for a reason |
The small valve clearances being discussed are all regarding chromoly pushrods. VW did not design them, so VW doesn't get to set their clearance. 
Robbie
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richparker
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Joined: November 24, 2011
Posts: 6982
Location: Durango, CO
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| Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 8:27 am Post subject: Re: VW Bus Dyno Reports |
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^^^Here we go again...nothing wrong with setting chromoly push rods at .006, that's how mine are set and have been for the last 30k I have put on stroker engines. As you can see from my numbers both on and off the dyno, they work just fine set that way. Builders choice.
Skills, why trash it?!? ACVW power is our thing. You don't like it, fine...Tcash has decided to make this the definitive dyno thread, no need to type/talk down to users about their results.
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nerdhotrod
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udidwht
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Joined: March 06, 2005
Posts: 3779
Location: Seattle, WA./ HB, Ca./ Shizuoka, Japan
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| Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:24 am Post subject: Re: VW Bus Dyno Reports |
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| richparker wrote: |
^^^Here we go again...nothing wrong with setting chromoly push rods at .006, that's how mine are set and have been for the last 30k I have put on stroker engines. As you can see from my numbers both on and off the dyno, they work just fine set that way. Builders choice.
Skills, why trash it?!? ACVW power is our thing. You don't like it, fine...Tcash has decided to make this the definitive dyno thread, no need to type/talk down to users about their results. |
It due to the general consensus that setting them to .006 stands to gain nothing vs a loose zero. Other than some added noise.
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1972 Westy Hardtop/Type-4 2056cc
96mm Biral AA P/C's~7.8:1CR
Headflow Masters New AMC 42x36mm heads w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
73 Web Cam w/Web solids
Dual 40mm IDF Webers - LM-2 - 47.5 idles/125 mains/190 air corr./F11 tubes/28mm Vents - Float height 10.45mm/Drop 32mm
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