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My RHD 1964 Convertible Restoration
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vladve
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:26 am    Post subject: Replacing parcel shelf Reply with quote

G'day all,

Week ago I’ve finished replacing the rear shelf.

Initially I thought I’d reuse the shelf from the donor bug, however I struggled to take it apart in a clean way. And it did have lots of rust, particularly where it meets the engine firewall. Hence I decided to buy a new replacement part. Cost me about $300AU – actually the most expensive sheet-metal part I bought. It came fully assembled with the firewall, which I didn’t need and had to drill-out to disassemble.

Also, I was a bit disappointed about the thickness of the replacement shelf metal. It was ridiculous 0.6mm as opposed to the solid 0.8-1mm of an original one. And as a result it caused me some issues welding it. When I was using settings to weld through the base metal (which was thicker) it would burn through on edges of the shelf. What I had to do was to take an approach where I'd start welding right in the middle of each hole I pre-drilled and then doing small circular motions with the gun fill the hole in and just (but only just) touch with the melted metal the outside of the hole – then it melts in nicely, without burning.

Another minor obstacle was in pressing the shelf firmly into place. Because of its size I clearly couldn’t use clamps. What I did was to fabricate a couple of bars with two bolts at both ends, which I’d push against wheel arches or the central bar I fitted previously (bolts needed to adjust it to correct size for each section). Have a look at the pics – it’ll all be clear.

Cutting the shelf into components:
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Cleaning the bay and marking the spot-weld points to grind:
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Making the shelf ready:
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This is bar I used to press it against the sides and the cross-bar (next pic):
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Now welded in, slightly grinded and ready for paint. Even though being a thinner metal, it actually holds in place not bad - I can easily stand on it and doesn't show any signs of play. Eventually I was quite pleased with the result.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


All done! (I'll put the seam-sealer later on)
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
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convertparts1
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vlad, very nice work and a 64 is definitly worth the effort, thanks for sending the link ..I will be happy to assist you in anyway I can with parts needed,Chuck/chucksconvertibleparts USA
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vladve
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another quick update from yesterday.

I’ve fitted the B-Pillar lower reinforcement panels (these are unique for convertibles). In general it went pretty easy. The only complication was due to the fact of original sills having a slightly different shape as opposed to the replacement (new) ones. As a result, where the reinforcement panel would lay flat on the channel body, in my case there was a gap. What I decided to do was to fabricate a small, right angled, piece of metal (I made a really thick one – 2.5 mm), which I welded to the inner edge of the heater channel and then attached the reinforcement piece to that bar. It turned out to sit pretty good on it. The entire structure also turned out to be extremely firm. Have a browse through pics – all will be clear.

The rest was pretty easy. Now the rear half sits great on sills. I’m pretty much back to where I started before the “separation”. The plan now is to move to the rear apron; where there was a dodgy welding made to fit post 70th bumper bars. The welding looks very ugly and it affected the rear area badly as it wasn’t treated against rust. I’ve got new replacement sections for that area now, but I’m not sure if I need to try and cure the current or completely replace it. New sections, being universal, don’t look ideal either. What do you reckon, any thoughts?

Starting point - this is the left side. Note the small piece I attached which will hold the panel against the sill:
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.

Getting the curviness right:
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Finished product - both sides
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Now this is the current state of the rear bumper mounting section:
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And this is the new repair panel as it comes.
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Cheers,
Vlad.
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scottalford
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Vlad,

Great work on the 1964 Karmann. I picked up a Californian 1960 (Aug 1959) Karmann from George at Classic Vee Dub in Sydney last year and have been working on the body repairs. Not to the extent that you have - quite inspiring!!

Last weekend I picked up some new lower rear quarter panels to repair the rear end. When I saw the panel you are looking to use I had to respond. I think that you have the wrong panel for your 64.

This is a picture of my rear end when I got it. Someone had removed the H apron and bogged in some "replacement" bumper mounts. Was a dogs breakfast but correct for the model year.

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The replacement panel (although not the same as the original).

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And my first attempt to fit up new metal....

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The H apron and blue guards are from a 1958 donor body I picked up. A bit of rust to deal with but the OG metal is a lot nicer to work with.

Please check those rear bumper mounts as the I'm pretty sure that your mounts should be the same as mine. (changed in 1967-68 I think)

Can't wait to see how your vert progresses.

Scott
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Foxy
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

scottalford wrote:
When I saw the panel you are looking to use I had to respond. I think that you have the wrong panel for your 64.


Yep they are definately incorrect, you need to use the type scottalford has shown.
Our if you want some proper quality bumper hangers get some from here:

http://www.hookyspanelshop.com/
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vladve
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 2:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys. I agree they do look odd. However I think these are of some sort of “universal fitting” type. I can actually slide my bumpers in horizontally and it lines up with old mounting points fine; and I assume other mounting points are for later model bumpers with wider bars.

But you did make me reconsider it now. I'll do few phone calls over the coming week to see how much the correct ones might cost. I'd prefer those if I could get them quick enough. I also have an option of using a donor part of my blue beetle - I've reinspected them now and they actually look not so bad.

Thanks for comments!
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vladve
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 2:40 am    Post subject: Rear Apron Reply with quote

It’s been embarrassingly long since the last update. There have been too many distractions on the way. Also somehow I’ve become a boat owner during this time, whilst the boat, being a pretty old thing by itself, required some attention too. I ended up spending 2 months restoring the hull, doing paint jobs, sorting the engine etc.

Back to the real bug. Both of rear bumper mounts have been replaced. Following previous questions - those mounts apparently are universal and fit all bumper-bar types. Here they are fitted. Spot welds for left and right trays in the engine bay had to be removed, aprox. for 2/3 of the length.

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Then I started fitting the rear apron. I’ve purchased a new one for something around $120. And whilst it looked fine overall, it wasn’t fitting well at all. There were gaps everywhere, the engine bay seal channel wasn’t aligned. Plus the overall quality was sort of 6 out of 10 – flat edges, very rare spot welds and generally thin metal. Didn't like it:

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Hence I’ve made the decision to use the apron from the donor vehicle. It was in pretty good shape, nearly zero rust, and once drilled out and removed:

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... it fitted great, straight in without any efforts:

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Here is the right-hand side of the apron welded:

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And here everything is finished and primed:

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Now I will be moving to the front section, which will be the last major piece of the body work. I still need to weld the front section to heater channels and also put back all inner-reinforcement panels I removed. The front apron will need to be replaced as well. So stay tuned for this one. Cheers!


Last edited by vladve on Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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scottalford
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vladve,

Great to see some progress, can't wait to see how this one turns out.

Scott
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vladve
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unfortunately it’s been another three months low on action. Recently I have eventually assembled and welded the front half onto the sills. Then, after a thorough cleaning and rust proofing, I have fitted original inner reinforcement panels, which are unique to convertibles. These included a small triangular fitted between the A pillar and the sill and then the complexly shaped inner panel. The panel had to be slightly tweaked to sit well on top of the new heater channel. Unfortunately replacement heater channels have a square section towards the front, whereas originals are round in the same spot. Hence this stuff had to be beaten slightly.

This is what it looks like after the front has been welded (inside the wheel arch, along the fornt firewall etc.) Somewhat looking almost like a car now Very Happy
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This is the starting point before fitting the inner reinforcement panel – that’s what it normally looks like on all standard beetles.
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This is that little reinforcement triangular, similar to the one at rear:
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This is the inner panel:
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This is the finished product. Note the RH side which was finished first:
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The next step will be replacing the entire front apron (cutting through wheel arches). As you can appreciate from the photo, front bumper mounts were hacked to accommodate a more modern set of wider bumpers. The apron itself is quite in a poor state anyway.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The original mounts were welded shut. Also looks like this area sustained an accident long time ago, which then was poorly beaten, particularly given now it doesn’t look right and also there are tons of bog there.
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I’d really appreciate some tips on what’s the best way of tackling this. My concerns are: is it anywhere different for a vert – as it is a structural part, what should be the best approach. And also the same topic which I know was discussed a lot however I haven’t seen a definite answer yet – how to draw a line to cut it off whilst making sure the subsequent donor part fits right.

Let me know what do you reckon – will really appreciate that.
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reedwesd
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow VERY inspirational. It talks some real confidence to have never welded to take on a project this size. I have a 65 and a 66 vert and have been worried to death about doing the rust repairs right but i don't think it will be problem now. Awesome job and keep up the good work.
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vladve
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just received the certificate from VW museum in Germany. Took about 3 weeks and cost about 50 Euro. The good news is that it confirms the originality of the car – convertible, RHD. That’s the main thing. I was also a bit surprised with the actual manufacturing date – I was under impression it was 1964 bug, and yet it turns out the 1962 one. That’s a nice one actually.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I was quite puzzled with the “Fidschi-Carpenter” as the country of destination. I’ve looked through couple of threads and the consensus is that this might be CKD pack sent to Fiji, where a local dealer “Suva Carpenter” was shipping it forward to Australia. However by looking at VW history in AU (http://www.clubvw.org.au/history003) it turns out there was a bunch of 50 1961 cabrios imported into AU to be exhibited at Melbourne Motor Show to find out whether these would be in any demand. Apparently there wasn’t too much of an interest and hence bug convertibles were never officially imported to Australia. So these 50 would be the only ones to land on local shores "officially".

I also came across an opinion that all bugs reassembled in AU, all used distinctive red primer. My car has exactly the same original red primer. Another interesting fact is that even though it appears to have left the factory as an “anthracite” car – my car has never been painted black – it actually appears to be white from the beginning. But with all said I personally doubt if convertibles would be ever shipped as CKD – I believe it would too much of a hassle to reassemble.

Does anyone have any ideas about what this Fidschi-Carpenter might mean? Anyone has any other insights on the history of AU bugs (and convertibles)?
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moogie32
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Vlad, Anthracite is not black, but more of a medium grey - check this out
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/lit/6162bugcolors.php

Also, would your car's date of manufacturer make it a 1963 since it was built after August instead of a '62? I have a 1963 Karmann Ghia that was built Aug 2, 1962.....
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Skim
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:54 pm    Post subject: Re: My RHD 1964 Convertible Restoration Reply with quote

vladve wrote:
Hi,
This is my first post on the website.
My new project is 1964 Beetle convertible, on 67 chassis. The previous owner had the car completely restored back in 70th. Following the fashion of those days he had put on the later model’s wings, lights, Recaro seats, mugs etc. Unfortunately he had also welded the dash to put in useless bunch of gauges. The restoration was not the best one. Lots of welding had been left unsealed, therefore rusted almost entirely. Gaps in doors are not good; at least I know for sure the heater channels were not replaced, so the overall body geometry is fine.
The last 10 year the car spent in a shed (don’t ask me why Confused ) where the water was dripping through the leaking roof (of the shed). The vert roof wasn’t particularly hermetic, hence water was accumulated alongside the rear tray, captured within the insulation behind the rear seat.
To keep the story short, the rear luggagy tray is like paper now – can be cut with a table knife. Crossmembers are gone; floors are almost gone. Rear quarters are bad, heater channels are also in a bad condition. But from the handbrake forward the car is extremely solid, with literally no rust at all.
It is currently fitted with replacement box 1600cc; which looks pretty fresh. It is not running but can be turned.
I've made the same mistake everyone is always advised against: not buying a car without a personal/ professional inspection. I’ve bought it on Ebay; relied on the seller to give me a trustful description. Ended up being advised “it is rust free car, with minor rust in battery tray ...” But to my excuse I’d say I would have bought it anyway, as in general VW verts in AU are incredibly hard to come by, especially in the original RHD specification. But it is a done deal now. Absolutely no regrets – just keep moving forward.
So here we go. This will be “coming back to the roots” restoration. I’ve also bought a donor 64 sedan in a very good condition besides the engine. It will donate the chassis, interior (original seats, steering wheel, knobs etc.) and some metal whenever needed.
The replacement parts have been ordered: two heater channels, reinforcement bars, rear quarters, luggage tray, front apron, two crossmembers. All that should be coming from Denmark, I was told.
The cars cost me 5K, plus $650 to get it from the New South Wales to Victoria (Australia it is Very Happy). The donor car cost me another 1K. The parts mentioned above - 1K inc. shipping.
I’ve watched the bugme wells of knowledge. I've gone through manuals, this site's forums etc.
So, I guess we’ll see now if with the absolutely non-technical qualification of business analyst I can pull out something reasonable out if this exercise.


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The rear tray:
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RH Crossmember
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Front firewall:
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damn, they really fat chicked that bitch the fuck out! What the hell were they thinking.
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Skim
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vladve wrote:
Just received the certificate from VW museum in Germany. Took about 3 weeks and cost about 50 Euro. The good news is that it confirms the originality of the car – convertible, RHD. That’s the main thing. I was also a bit surprised with the actual manufacturing date – I was under impression it was 1964 bug, and yet it turns out the 1962 one. That’s a nice one actually.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I was quite puzzled with the “Fidschi-Carpenter” as the country of destination. I’ve looked through couple of threads and the consensus is that this might be CKD pack sent to Fiji, where a local dealer “Suva Carpenter” was shipping it forward to Australia. However by looking at VW history in AU (http://www.clubvw.org.au/history003) it turns out there was a bunch of 50 1961 cabrios imported into AU to be exhibited at Melbourne Motor Show to find out whether these would be in any demand. Apparently there wasn’t too much of an interest and hence bug convertibles were never officially imported to Australia. So these 50 would be the only ones to land on local shores "officially".

I also came across an opinion that all bugs reassembled in AU, all used distinctive red primer. My car has exactly the same original red primer. Another interesting fact is that even though it appears to have left the factory as an “anthracite” car – my car has never been painted black – it actually appears to be white from the beginning. But with all said I personally doubt if convertibles would be ever shipped as CKD – I believe it would too much of a hassle to reassemble.

Does anyone have any ideas about what this Fidschi-Carpenter might mean? Anyone has any other insights on the history of AU bugs (and convertibles)?


thats a pretty good suprise! Congrats Cool
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vladve
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks so much for the comments, really appreciate it!

It is taking a while to fix the front apron, so I thought I’d post a midway update.

I’ve done lot’s of thinking about where exactly to cut the body for apron replacement. Most people cut it right in the middle of the wheel arch, through the fuel tank mounting bar. I decided not to do that, first because it would be (in my view) quite challenging to weld properly that square mounting bar if I cut it, but the main reason was the concern it would loosen the front chassis mounting points. Given this is a convertible – it may (and I think will) affect door gaps, and general body alignment.

Anyway, to cut the story short, I’ve decided to undo the horizontal line of spot welds in the spare wheel well, and sort of cut a zigzag line through the arch.

So far all what I’ve done was to cut out the donor part, tidy it up some rust spots, measure and cut out the right line through right and left wheel arches. Here are some images.

These are small rust spots developed under paint that I welded and grinded. The donor part isn’t perfect but would rate 8 out of 10. Generally no rust and quite straight. Following my experience with new aftermarket sheet metal parts – it will definitely be better than anything else:

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This is a rough cut of the old front apron – just to have more room to work while drilling out the spot welds:

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Old and “new” parts together:

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This is my attempt to “replicate” the line. In fact this is the most fun part. What I’ve done was to first use only straight lines (which is kind of obvious). Then I cut a piece from the donor vehicle which was a mirror side of the replacement part, which I then matched against fender mounting hole and one of the standard technological holes (2 points is enough in general). Then I sprayed this “sandwich” which gave me the shaded area of where to cut. I then added a line and after cutting grinded remaining "painted" bits:

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That’s how it looks after cutting. Note the spots drilled out where the "new" part will be installed back:

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And this is an exciting moment of fitting the part – looks pretty good, only minor adjustments were required. Note the "template" bar I pre-drilled to make sure the distance between fender mounting points is maintained.

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This is the view from inside:

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The next step is actually doing the welding, which I think will be fun. I actually never thought I'd sometimes say "I'm looking forward to doing some welding over the weekend" Very Happy

Cheers, Vlad
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vladve
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now trying to make the most of few days off work, I’ve eventually finished welding the front apron.

This is the LH side (passenger) outside and inside:

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This is the RH (driver’s) side:

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To weld the spare wheel well I had to make two quick adjustable tools which helped press the panel – otherwise clamps wouldn’t reach to all of the spots:

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This is the finished RH side, slightly grinded and sprayed a bit with a primer. The top section (second image) turned out nearly perfect - can hardly see the seam:

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Cheers and Happy New Year!
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’ve fitted the guards and the front bumper, to see how it all aligns together.

How cool is that! - almost looks like a car now. Just another year to go Very Happy

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yesterday I’ve tackled the last outstanding, rather substantial, repair step – fixing the dashboard. When I’ve got the car the previous owner drilled the dash to install multiple auxiliary gauges.

That’s what it looked like when I just got the car:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


And this is the starting point after stripping it off.
All auxiliary gauges were fitted inside a custom metal plates, which were welded instead of standard bug’s dash trim pieces. Unfortunately the entire backing of the dash on both sides was cut out as a result.

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Initially I was thinking to replace the entire dashboard – sort of cut it out around and weld in the donor part. Eventually I figured out that this would be rather unnecessary, also requiring significant metal finishing on seams. And being it a dashboard I thought I'd try to reduce any noticeable intervention into the sort of structural surrounding of the dash. I ended up cutting out two halves from the donor part, grinding them almost flash and welding these at the back.

This is the donor part:

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And this is after everything has been done. Note the top LH corner on the left half – I had to weld in a small piece and grind/sand it manually to give it the required shape - was a bit of a pain. The result isn’t perfect but should be Ok to look perfect with a bit of filler later on:

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Essentially this means I’ve reached the most important milestone of my restoration exercise, which is finishing all rust repairs on the body. It is a bit embarrassing to say it has taken me nearly 2.5 years to this point, though generally it was the hardest undertaking for me, whilst by far the most challenging was to maintain enough determination simply to keep going (and along the way withstand the family’s questioning pressure as you’d all know).

The only outstanding item now is to drill the moulding trim holes, which unfortunately had been welded completely. However otherwise this means I can start preparing the body for colour – very exciting!
Thanks for the support and stay tuned.
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lovethatconvertible
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:46 pm    Post subject: My RHD 1964 Convertible Restoration Reply with quote

Nice work on saving the dash. Front clip came out nice as well. Are you going to fill in the hole between the light and wiper switch or did I miss that. I guess your going to start sanding and primer soon? Keep the updates coming.
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vladve
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi everyone, long delay again, unfortunately.
Thanks @lovethatconvertible for pointing out about the hole in the dash – I actually forgot about it - all fixed now. All this time I’ve been working on the car to clean it off the bog and get it back to the bare metal. After multiple hesitations and debates whether I should do the paint prep work myself or let it to the pros, I decided to go with the professional quality. The point is that after I’ve spoken with couple of guys in the panel beating area, to get an idea of the paint exercise cost, they all said they’d struggle to warranty a paint job on a surface they didn’t prep themself. And I can’t be certain I’d do a good job – I’ve never done it and I know it can be quite fiddly. But to be completely honest – I’ve reached a stage where I’d rather pay someone to speed up the process. Can’t wait to see it going already!
And then I came across a guy who said he’d do the full lot – prep (good one, without cutting corners) and paint for $5-6K. I was really thrilled with that as it wasn’t far from my initial paint budget, hence we scheduled for the car to go to his shop in May (next month it is), however the condition was I’d do the bare metal finish etc., which I can do, no worries. Anyway I rushed to keep stripping the old paint, and the last panel I was working on, had 1 inch (no joking) of bog on it all over the panel. Apparently that’s where the car was hit long time ago and rather than replace the panel someone just covered it with filler. Without filler there were gaps of 0.5’’-1’’ between the front quarter panel and the guard.

So here is a quick panel replacement process – hopefully the last major metal working exercise.
That’s where I started. All marked up:
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The bad part have been removed. To get a straight cut I’ve been using a thick long aluminium strip (disposable at the end), which I screwed to the panel and then used it as guide, sliding the cut off wheel along it.
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A replacement panel – thanks to the donor car again. I couldn't get a spare full quarter panel anywhere in Australia, unfortunately. This was good enough though.
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Old and “new” pieces. The “new” piece had to be assembled from two. The bottom part is from a brand new lower wheel arch replacement panel which I was lucky to find locally. The donor part rusted out there.
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The new part – top section fitted.
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All parts fitted.
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After some grinding.
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That's where I am at the moment.
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Cheers,
Vlad
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