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no spark in a 1965 1200
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jessereitz
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:34 pm    Post subject: no spark in a 1965 1200 Reply with quote

I have a 1965 Beetle with an original 1200 in it. It will not spark, let alone start. I have replaced the coil, condenser, and battery. What would keep it from sparking? There is a green wire that looks as though it is coming off of the choke on the carb. It is not attached to anything. Will this have anything to do with it?
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glutamodo Premium Member
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Start with the basics - do you have 6V (or 12V if it's converted) to terminal 15 on your coil when the key is on? That terminal 15 is also the terminal your choke wire connects to (it's supposed to be a black wire, by the way) The green condensor wire connects to terminal 1 on the coil. I'd leave the choke unhooked while you figure out your spark issues though.

The points, are they opening? Are they free of corrosion or dirt? If you have +6V, and you open the points by turning the engine over by hand, you should be able to see and hear a small spark at them when they open, if they do not, something is wrong. And when them open you can use a screwdriver to short across them to also generate a spark.

What distributor do you have on there? (Yes, I know you said it was an original 1200, but I had the original engine in my 62 when I got the car in 1989 and it did not have the original distributor)

-Andy
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jessereitz
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

could any of the fuses prevent my distributor from producing as park?
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Hammarlund
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
could any of the fuses prevent my distributor from producing as park?


Not under normal circumstances. The line to the coil is supposed to be unfused. This is why we have to be careful when we handle it!

This diagram is not completely correct for your car; but it does show most of the important parts of the ignition system:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

The biggest difference is that on your car a seperate wire runs straight from the B+ terminal on the voltage regulator to the ignition switch; it does not tie in at the headlight switch as on this diagram.

It's going to be a lot easier to fix this if you have a test lamp, or a voltmeter. You need some way to tell if voltage is present at a given spot or not.

Consider buying a multimeter. They are not expensive; a perfectly good one can be had for less than fifteen dollars, and you've already spent that much on ignition parts you didn't really need!

If you buy a voltmeter, I personally would get an analog one, like this:

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_034823620...482362000P

Digital ones tend to be confused by the rather intense electromagnetic fields present around an ignition system that uses points and a coil.

Whether you use a meter or a test lamp, you need to check for voltage at the coil as per Andy's post above.
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Jeckler
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hammarlund wrote:
This diagram is not completely correct for your car; but it does show most of the important parts of the ignition system:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

The biggest difference is that on your car a seperate wire runs straight from the B+ terminal on the voltage regulator to the ignition switch; it does not tie in at the headlight switch as on this diagram.


Is this diagram wrong then?
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiring/bug_62.jpg
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Hammarlund
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Is this diagram wrong then?


Aw, hell, I was tracing the wire backward. How embarrassing. Embarassed

I'm going to sit down and shut up now.
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64vdub
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A multimeter WILL give you the answer. Start with the basics Smile
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jessereitz
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I should add that the engine turns over. I am getting electricity everywhere except the spark plugs
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You say you get power every where but the spark plugs - does that mean you actually did a voltage check at the plus terminal (15) on the coil?

The power line going from the ignition switch terminal 50 to the start-tab on the starter is one straight cable - but then the power lead going to the terminal 15 on the coil is different - it makes a stop at the fusebox first, the unfused side of the fuse closest to the steering column, then back to the rear. So, two different pathways, you can have one connected and work fine but have problems with the other - that's why we've telling you that you need to get a meter and check for voltage at terminal 15 on the coil.

If you haven't, get yourself a multimeter. Heck I've bought like like 8 or 9 different ones over the years, some are really el-cheapo ones I got for 5 dollars at Harbor Freight, (others are much more expensive ones for tach/dwell, thermometer, and other more advanced functions) but all you really need is a basic one to check for voltage there - Something like this will work fine:

http://www.harborfreight.com/7-function-digital-multimeter-90899.html

You never said, is the car 6V or 12V?

-Andy
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 4:12 pm    Post subject: Let me try Reply with quote

You said "There is a green wire that looks as though it is coming off of the choke on the carb. It is not attached to anything. Will this have anything to do with it?" Is the wire attached to your distributor bright green? I wonder if it is broken off of the distributor and incorrectly attached to the choke?

Try this. Key off. Disconnect anything attached to the neg. side of the ignition coil (term. 1). Key on. Take your test light, 6 or 12 volt as appropriate, and check for power. If it lights, chances are everything from that point back to the ignition switch is good. If it does not light, start tracing backwards.

A picture of the distributor, choke, and coil connections would be helpful.
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jessereitz
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sorry guys, i've been busy lately. The car is a 6v
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

6V can be more promblematic due to poor connections and subequesnt voltage drops.

Anyway you still need to get a test light or voltmeter and do some troubleshooting.
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jessereitz
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

maybe I should be more specific. I have electricity in the car at least. I have a few test lights actually, how do I test it? I tried what you said but i could not get anything
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please help me! how do i test for power at the coil. You guys keep saying to, but I don't know how. I put the positive to the positive side of the coil, and the negative to the negative, I got no light. I don't know if I am doing it wrong, the light doest work, or a combination of all three. Help please!
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You just turn the key on, put your test light or meter on the plus side/terminal 15 (black wire) on the coil and the other wire to the engine block or any other bare metal/ground.
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jessereitz
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ohhhh okay, thanks!
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Zundfolge1432
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All very good advice but for the complete novice I'd go directly to Muirs troubleshooting for no start condition he needs to understand primary from secondary and proceed in a logical order which as John wrote it is easy to follow.... I know we all rag on John from time to time myself included but his troubleshooting diagram is easy to use ............It saves time to instead of buying things like batteries, this guy is gonna spend a fortune using the shotgun approach...
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