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Crankshaft cam gear and Distributor alignment
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dfw_ie
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 5:03 pm    Post subject: Crankshaft cam gear and Distributor alignment Reply with quote

I am building a 1641 Dual port. I have installed the distributor drive with the offset perpendicular to the case parting line. The offset is toward the flywheel. The case half is oriented with the main bearing bolts facing up. My question:
Once i set the distributor and tighten it- offset toward flywheel and slot perpendicular to the case parting line. When i install the crankshaft should the timing dots on the cam gear be pointed towards the 3'oclock (down if the case was upright) or 12o'clock with the case oriented with the main bearing bolts up.

thanks. the wilson book is kinda confusing to me.
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candymustang65
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Set Dizzy drive with the distributor ( Slash mark on Distrib edge pointed at #1 Posistion )
#1 posistion is the fuel pump stud closest to the edge of the motor .
Turn rotor to #1 posistion with slash mark on distributor edge also pointed at nuber one .
Snugg distrib clamp .
Set crank in case #1 rod at it's furthest travel ( TDC #1 ) .
Sett bearing's by gently aligning and pushing up against the spring on the distributor by lifting or pushing up on dizzy drive < will sett right in if bearing's are lined up with dowell pinn's ( Lil jiggle of rotor back and forth keeping the rotor pointed at #1 posistion .
All the while keeping the #1 rod at it's farthest lenght of travel
Once crank and distrib drive gears mesh crank seat's the bearing's on there dowell pinn < all the way down check that when rotor is pointing #1 posistion that the #1 rod is at it's farthest lenght of travel ( TDC #1 )
Rotate crank shaft to see crank gear dot .
Set cam gear on the dot in dot roll gear for gear down intoo the cam shaft journal's .
Rotate crank and observe the crank gear and cam gear dot's line up .
NOTE :Pushing up on Distributor drive against the small spring on end of the distributor is what meshes the crank and camm gear allowing the crank bearing's to set down on there dowell pinns all the way .
2nd NOTE : twisting back and forth on the distributor rotor will move the crank back and forth in it's thrust travel .
moving the crank to fly wheel end, of the case via twisting the rotor then slightly forward will mimic a thrust setting and is where you should take your camm back lash read and camm thrust read .
If you rotate the crank shaft by cranking on the rod's and camm lift's up then your cam gear is to positive .
If you do not use a stock camm then you will most likely get a zereo pitch radiuse cam .
Stock cam gear's are stamped 0 or -1 or -2 up to -7 or more positive over the 0 gear would be +1 or +2 and up to +7 ( gear's not stamped are considerd 0 pitch radiuse .
Mild hi performance camm's need to be degreed in fact technically sold should stock camm's ?
but more critical when changeing camm's to aftermarket it's absolute .
If camm and crank are matched < as in together and your puttin um right back together and Pitch radiuse work's out .
You can in all probabuility slide on the degree- ing the camm .
( There gonna ream me on that one but it's true )
Best to degree it make sure !
Sean
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Glenn Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dfw_ie wrote:
thanks. the wilson book is kinda confusing to me.

then don't read this.

candymustang65 wrote:
Set Dizzy drive with the distributor ( Slash mark on Distrib edge pointed at #1 Posistion )
#1 posistion is the fuel pump stud closest to the edge of the motor .
Turn rotor to #1 posistion with slash mark on distributor edge also pointed at nuber one .
Snugg distrib clamp .
Set crank in case #1 rod at it's furthest travel ( TDC #1 ) .
Sett bearing's by gently aligning and pushing up against the spring on the distributor by lifting or pushing up on dizzy drive < will sett right in if bearing's are lined up with dowell pinn's ( Lil jiggle of rotor back and forth keeping the rotor pointed at #1 posistion .
All the while keeping the #1 rod at it's farthest lenght of travel
Once crank and distrib drive gears mesh crank seat's the bearing's on there dowell pinn < all the way down check that when rotor is pointing #1 posistion that the #1 rod is at it's farthest lenght of travel ( TDC #1 )
Rotate crank shaft to see crank gear dot .
Set cam gear on the dot in dot roll gear for gear down intoo the cam shaft journal's .
Rotate crank and observe the crank gear and cam gear dot's line up .
NOTE :Pushing up on Distributor drive against the small spring on end of the distributor is what meshes the crank and camm gear allowing the crank bearing's to set down on there dowell pinns all the way .
2nd NOTE : twisting back and forth on the distributor rotor will move the crank back and forth in it's thrust travel .
moving the crank to fly wheel end, of the case via twisting the rotor then slightly forward will mimic a thrust setting and is where you should take your camm back lash read and camm thrust read .
If you rotate the crank shaft by cranking on the rod's and camm lift's up then your cam gear is to positive .
If you do not use a stock camm then you will most likely get a zereo pitch radiuse cam .
Stock cam gear's are stamped 0 or -1 or -2 up to -7 or more positive over the 0 gear would be +1 or +2 and up to +7 ( gear's not stamped are considerd 0 pitch radiuse .
Mild hi performance camm's need to be degreed in fact technically sold should stock camm's ?
but more critical when changeing camm's to aftermarket it's absolute .
If camm and crank are matched < as in together and your puttin um right back together and Pitch radiuse work's out .
You can in all probabuility slide on the degree- ing the camm .
( There gonna ream me on that one but it's true )
Best to degree it make sure !
Sean

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dfw_ie
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:52 pm    Post subject: Distributor shaft and cam gear Reply with quote

Sorry guys, i guess im a little dense. I wasn't able to understand the previous posts. If the distributor drive shaft is set- offset towards flywheel and slot perpendicular to case parting line (case half main bearing bolts facing up), how do i orient the crankshaft in the case?

Should the cam gear dots up, down, left or right? (when facing the pulley end of the case with the main bearing bolts facing up. any help is appreciated.
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ashman40
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can shed a little light here.. hopefully this is not just "muddying the waters" more.

I'm assuming you have the case open and are installing the distributor, crank and then the cam.

First, this is what your distributor drive gear should look like (TDC for #1) before you install the distributor:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
(Pic borrowed from Glenn's site)
I hope this is what you meant by
Quote:
"distributor drive shaft is set- offset towards flywheel"

I would actually say that the slot in the distributor drive gear if off-set towards the (rear) pulley.

With the distributor drive gear oriented correctly in the case, install the distributor so it engages the offset key of the drive gear. The rotor should now be pointing to #1 position (different positions for different distributors).
Rotate the distributor housing (NOT the rotor) so the small mark on the housing rim lines up with the tip of the rotor.
Lock down the distributor housing clamp. Now you can use the rotor alignment to the mark on the distributor housing as a reference to #1 TDC.

Now, rotate the left-half of the case in the engine stand so you can drop the crank into place. Hold the crank by the small ends of the #1 & #2 connecting rods with #1 being at its highest position (simulating #1 at TDC). Drop it into the case and engage the distributor drive gear. Check the the distributor rotor is still pointing to the mark and that the #1 connecting rod is fully extended (TDC). Make sure the crank/bearings are fully seated.
So now the distributor and crank are properly indexed for #1 TDC.

Now install the cam, making sure the dot on the cam gear and dots on the crank gear "mesh" like this (look closely at the dots):
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Don't forget to install all the lifters in the left-side of the case first Smile .
You may need to rotate the crank to confirm the dots line up. This is a key step so triple check the dots are oriented correctly.

I couldn't find ANY reference to how the cam/crank dots should be when #1 is at TDC, but this pic might help:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Notice that the #1 connecting rod is just about fully extended and you can see the dot on the cam gear is not "meshed" with the dots on the crank gear.

When you are DONE, rotate the entire distributor, crank & cam assembly so the distributor is pointed at the mark on the distributor body. If the cam is oriented correctly, the lobes of the cam for #1 & #3 cylinder will extend DOWN towards the #3 cylinder. When any cylinder is at TDC, the cam lobes for that cylinder should be furthest away from lifting the valves for that cylinder. Also, the connecting rod for #1 should be at its highest (TDC).

The above pics came from this thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=296443
Give it a read...


Hope this helps...
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would it help to lightly tap the crankshaft pulley on so one could see its TDC mark?
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok admittedly lil confuseing but only cause I dont post pic's . Razz
I like to sett the Dizzy and Dizzy drive with clamp 1st off .
Then the crank and Camm .
Advantage's are many !
Lil push on the dizzy drive torwards the Distrib against the spring .
Crank gear and Drive gear mesh they set right down no guessin On dizzy drive posistion .
I did get a new camera think the cobb webb's took it over ?
Sean
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Max Welton
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

candymustang65 wrote:
Ok admittedly lil confuseing but only cause I dont post pic's . Razz

Remember Sean, a picture is worth a thousand words. So if you add a picture, delete some words. Laughing

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:42 pm    Post subject: Crankshaft cam gear and Distributor alignment Reply with quote

thanks Ashman that's exactly what i needed. Thanks to everyone else that posted. I appreciate all the help. Thanks.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

candymustang65 wrote:
Ok admittedly lil confuseing but only cause I dont post pic's .


No it's because you have very poor writing skills, do not know how to form a coherent sentence and your spelling sucks. All your posts are very difficult to read. 98% of them I just skip. I'm not trying to be a dick just pointing out the facts.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vwracerdave wrote:
candymustang65 wrote:
Ok admittedly lil confuseing but only cause I dont post pic's .


No it's because you have very poor writing skills, do not know how to form a coherent sentence and your spelling sucks. All your posts are very difficult to read. 98% of them I just skip. I'm not trying to be a dick just pointing out the facts.


I have to agree.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agree...
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joey wrote:
vwracerdave wrote:
candymustang65 wrote:
Ok admittedly lil confuseing but only cause I dont post pic's .


No it's because you have very poor writing skills, do not know how to form a coherent sentence and your spelling sucks. All your posts are very difficult to read. 98% of them I just skip. I'm not trying to be a dick just pointing out the facts.


I have to agree.

sorry, but I too have to quit after about the second line
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy guys... he's gonna get a complex.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahh come on Man I actually Won a 8th grade Spelling Bee ?
As to coherent ?
Yeah I type short a lott guess I missed the Conjunction Junction Cartoon's as a Kidd ?
But it's not that badd yeeeeesh I type with a Big ole fatt finger I smashed flatt as paper in a West Texas oil feild .
Really fast with it too !
Guess wich finger it is ? Twisted Evil Heh , Heh , Heh !
Or do you need Me to spell it out for you ?
Complex ?
Commin from a Grinch that's Hillarious !
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