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Starter brushes same as generator? Sources for brushes?
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overrestored
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:04 pm    Post subject: Starter brushes same as generator? Sources for brushes? Reply with quote

The brushes on my starter motor need replacing... Anyone know offhand if they are the same part as 6Volt generator brushes? I suppose I could pull out my generator brushes and find out... but I thought I would ask here first.

if they are different... does anyone know a supplier? I hate replacing the whole starter when all it needs is brushes.

also... I have heard that there are 4 brush 6v starters... and two brush 6v starters. Both of mine are 2 brush models and really don't have the horsepower to turn over my high compression 1500 okrasa.

So I suppose I should dig around for a four brush model VS trying to just bring my 2 brush models up to snuff. The 4 brush models may be 356 Porsche??

anyone have any knowledge or experience here to share?

Thanks in advance
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johnshenry Premium Member
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think they are Eric. While I haven't done careful side by side inspection, I think I recall seeing them listed somewhere as starter/gen brushes.

Would love to know for sure....
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overrestored
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found this info on the 356 registry site... 356 starters are .5 horsepower while vw starters are .4 horsepower! so the 356 starter is 20% stronger! Wow. Now I know I want a 356 starter at least...

http://www.356registry.org/tech/starters_356_vs_vw.html


This info should be of great use to those of us running okrasa engines and running 6 volts.

I still want to know about the brushes though. usually a failed starter is just brushes in my experience... trouble is... I can't find any "starter brushes"!

I'm gonna go dig for the generator brushes I have... and give them a try. I'll report back.

EDIT... an hour later... starter brushes are bigger... not the same. I suppose you could file down starter brushes to make generator brushes... but generator brushes... at least the ones I have... are smaller than starter brushes.

SO... does anyone know where to get the larger starter brushes?
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qwerty
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ebay is your friend...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi...0338617137
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qwerty
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

and it is probably in here somewhere - might give you another part number or source to search for.. or you can buy it from them directly



http://www.wagneralt.com/catalog/books/W2008-41.PDF
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spookymulder
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

qwerty wrote:
ebay is your friend...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi...0338617137
But they're not German Wink
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overrestored
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

those are close but have no ends soldered on... for the one with the ends... it looks like the starter brush is this part... see:

saint mary's carbon company...

http://www.stmaryscarbon.com/images/automotive-bru...tarter.pdf

part number B84 from them measures same as my brushes... but is longer (mine are worn out though which is why theirs are longer)

I can't find these brushes from a VW supplier. if anyone know of a vw vender with these parts... please advise.

I have just found a 356 starter though... and will be switching to the four brush set up and a new bushing. that should end my big motor starting issues.
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overrestored
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FYI...

the dimensions of the starter brush are... 7mm x 15.5mm x 22mm

the wire with the little soldered on end on it measures 31mm long total

now we all know way more about our starters than we used to eh.

remember to clean the carbon dust out of everything... especially the space between the little copper commutators on the shaft... there should be little valleys between the copper parts... nice clean valleys. Also clean the guides that hold the brushes... and the brushes themselves with some sandpaper or something. Cleaner is better on electrical stuff.
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Motorhead55
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 6:38 pm    Post subject: Re: are starter brushes the same part as generator brushes? Reply with quote

overrestored wrote:
The brushes on my starter motor need replacing... Anyone know offhand if they are the same part as 6Volt generator brushes? I suppose I could pull out my generator brushes and find out... but I thought I would ask here first.

if they are different... does anyone know a supplier? I hate replacing the whole starter when all it needs is brushes.

also... I have heard that there are 4 brush 6v starters... and two brush 6v starters. Both of mine are 2 brush models and really don't have the horsepower to turn over my high compression 1500 okrasa.

So I suppose I should dig around for a four brush model VS trying to just bring my 2 brush models up to snuff. The 4 brush models may be 356 Porsche??

anyone have any knowledge or experience here to share?

Thanks in advance

A VW type 3, 6 volt starter for the 1500 is a 4 brush, higher HP starter.

Also a starter brush is made up of more copper that a generator brush which has more carbon content.
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janerick3
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

overrestored wrote:
those are close but have no ends soldered on... for the one with the ends... it looks like the starter brush is this part... see:

saint mary's carbon company...

http://www.stmaryscarbon.com/images/automotive-bru...tarter.pdf

part number B84 from them measures same as my brushes... but is longer (mine are worn out though which is why theirs are longer)

I can't find these brushes from a VW supplier. if anyone know of a vw vender with these parts... please advise.

I have just found a 356 starter though... and will be switching to the four brush set up and a new bushing. that should end my big motor starting issues.


Installing a 356 starter on a VW transaxle may require swapping the end castings, as the solenoid is mounted on a slightly different angle relative to the starter bolt holes.
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originalo
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 3:40 am    Post subject: Re: are starter brushes the same part as generator brushes? Reply with quote

Quote:
A VW type 3, 6 volt starter for the 1500 is a 4 brush, higher HP starter.



Hello Eric,

I would also recommend an early type 3 6Volt starter, they have 0,5 HP also (as Porsche) and there won´t be a problem to install them to a VW gearbox.
I used that solution with good success on our ´59 Westy bus who also has a higher compression motor, that a 0,4 HP starter couldn´t move faithfully.

Jan
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GüteAndTite
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I finished cleaning up my 57 dated bosch starter,the early square solenoid screw terminal variety. I dissasembled it, cleaned all the pieces, gave the housing a sandblast and paint, and lubed bearings and trans bushing, and turned the commutator on a lathe, then reassembled it. Its turning over fine, but i noticed the brushes are looking a little short, they are within their little holders and I want to replace them before they leave me stranded.

anyone know where I can buy these?

Ive heard I need actual bosch as the brushes come in different hardnesses, and to soft they will turn to dust, to hard and it files grooves in the commutator. Anyhow, Im having absolutely no luck finding these. Ive tried wolfsburg west (no source for them), airheadparts (dont carry them) and vintage parts inc (dont carry them). dont know where to look next?!?

i measured them and they are 7mm thick, by 16mm wide, and are worn down to 15mm tall (should be much longer new) these are wider and thicker then a generator brush and have more of a copper carbon allow look (shiny copper polished where it meets the commutator), whereas a generator brush is carbon colored even where it wears away at the commutator
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overrestored
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

just to finish this thread off...

I ended up getting a rebuilt 356 6v 4 brush starter... and the solenoid is in a slightly different location as noted above somewhere... but it fit fine in my Beeskow... it may not fit fine in a beetle... don't know.

Bottom line is that the new starter spins the high compression 80mm piston okrasa a LOT faster than the old 2 brush starter did. The car starts like a dream now!
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