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RGD
Samba Member
Joined: December 20, 2009
Posts: 31
Location: duncan bc canada
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 Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:42 am Post subject: |
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Louis you don't have to split your tank apart to fix the waves
Last edited by RGD on Wed Sep 15, 2010 8:49 am; edited 1 time in total |
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belairman
Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2010
Posts: 399
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| Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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Tank from 54 bug. Just got back from powdercoater. Originally had a moto meter sending unit, not put back in yet.
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Bruce
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 17285
Location: Left coast, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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| RGD wrote: |
| you don't have to split your tank apart to fix the waves |
Pretty empty statement.
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| overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote: |
| ..... a steering wheel made from a mastadon tusk..... |
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RGD
Samba Member
Joined: December 20, 2009
Posts: 31
Location: duncan bc canada
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:01 am Post subject: |
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| sorry Bruce did you need help with your tank too |
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Bruce
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 17285
Location: Left coast, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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Why don't you share your secret?
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| overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote: |
| ..... a steering wheel made from a mastadon tusk..... |
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RGD
Samba Member
Joined: December 20, 2009
Posts: 31
Location: duncan bc canada
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| Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 8:48 am Post subject: |
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| no secerts here Bruce theres a 100mm hole in the top of the tank make up some tools to tap out the low spots use a shrinking disc to shrink down the high spots ,just time, practice and some patience ! |
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Suboval
Samba Member
Joined: September 15, 2003
Posts: 794
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 8:14 am Post subject: |
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| Bruce wrote: |
| Suboval wrote: |
| I tested three of 100 mm gas caps - two steel early ones and one aluminum later one. Both of the steel ones vents were almost all the way blocked off. The aluminum one had two thirds blocked. |
So none of your caps were completely blocked.
How do you explain the fact that the top of the tank is NEVER wavy? It's a much larger area, so your fantasy vacuum should have more effect on it.
The front of the tank is wavy. Part of it is concave, part convex, part concave. If this was caused by vacuum in the tank, there wouldn't be a convex part between the concave parts. It would be all sucked in. |
LMAO!!! The weaker surface area will collapse first. VW did not press a wavy tank, either by accident or on purpose. LOL! The reinforcement pressings weren't put in until the new tank change - maybe due to the unforeseen design flaw?! The lower pressure inside the tank, compared to the larger outside pressure, causes the collapse in the weaker area. High School Physics isn't for everyone. 
It's your deer, just let me get my saddle off of it. 
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There's two things we learn from history:
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Bruce
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 17285
Location: Left coast, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Suboval wrote: |
| Bruce wrote: |
| Suboval wrote: |
| I tested three of 100 mm gas caps - two steel early ones and one aluminum later one. Both of the steel ones vents were almost all the way blocked off. The aluminum one had two thirds blocked. |
So none of your caps were completely blocked.
How do you explain the fact that the top of the tank is NEVER wavy? It's a much larger area, so your fantasy vacuum should have more effect on it.
The front of the tank is wavy. Part of it is concave, part convex, part concave. If this was caused by vacuum in the tank, there wouldn't be a convex part between the concave parts. It would be all sucked in. |
LMAO!!! The weaker surface area will collapse first. VW did not press a wavy tank, either by accident or on purpose. LOL! The reinforcement pressings weren't put in until the new tank change - maybe due to the unforeseen design flaw?! The lower pressure inside the tank, compared to the larger outside pressure, causes the collapse in the weaker area. |
You keep babbling about a pressure difference, when it's a proven fact that the caps are all VENTED. Why can't you understand this?
If any cap became blocked, the pump would permanently implode the tank, then eventually the pump would stop drawing fuel causing the engine to stop. I've seen the effect on a later car when the external vent hoses were plugged off. This CAN'T happen with a VENTED gas cap. Why can't you understand this?
The fact that every tank is warped exactly the same way, proves they were ALL made that way.
_________________
| overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote: |
| ..... a steering wheel made from a mastadon tusk..... |
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Louis
Samba Member
Joined: September 26, 2007
Posts: 423
Location: canada BC
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| Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 1:43 am Post subject: |
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but why on the manual you dont see the waves, the tanks are looking flat.
maybe the waves come for the spare tire hitting it after 30 years...
who knows...
Rgd, would you help me restoring my tank?
by the way hows the paint coming along on the HEB?
cant wait to see it, call me when i can come by and drool... 
Last edited by Louis on Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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BugMan114
Samba Member
Joined: March 22, 2007
Posts: 3744
Location: Ellenwood, GA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 7:52 am Post subject: |
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how can gas block the cap, if its under a vaccume? if it were under pressure, i can see it causing a temporary blockage. and even if the caps were mostly blocked, would the gas leaving the tank rush out faster then air entering the tank?
OR maybe its a combination of both. maybe because of the stamping process, the metal in that area got a lot weaker, and over the course of over 50 years, the weakness of the metal gave way, and waved to the constant sloshing, partial vacume, vibration, stresses of driving, and numerous other factors. it might just be one of those things we may never know for sure.
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1974 Super Beetle: Custom resto in progress
1972 Super Beetle: Daily Driver
1971 Std. Beetle w/ 1929 Mercedes Benz Gazelle kit
1960 Baja Bug
1969 Baja Bug
Sand Rail- Homemade
Sand Rail- FUBAR
Aircooled Airheads
Why the hell do they call it a gland nut. its obviously a big fat bolt!!! |
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Bruce
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 17285
Location: Left coast, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 11:46 am Post subject: |
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| Louis wrote: |
| but why on the manual you dont see the waves, the tanks are looking flat. |
The manual should never be trusted for an accurate restoration. Just look at the colours of the parts in the manuals. Most suspension parts are painted nearly white to better show up. Even the tank is painted the wrong colour. It would be easy to believe they would have bodyworked the wavy tank at the time they painted the tank the light colour for the manual shots.
Let's see some period pics from the 50s. According to you vacuum nerds, they all should be straight.
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| overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote: |
| ..... a steering wheel made from a mastadon tusk..... |
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Russ
Samba Member
Joined: January 12, 2003
Posts: 1560
Location: Langley B.C.
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| Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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| RGD wrote: |
| Louis you don't have to split your tank apart to fix the waves |
i agree with this RDG but for access it made it a hell of alot easier.
once opened he just used a dolly and a slapper file
as for straight or not i am not sure if we will ever know for sure so do what you like and be happy with it 
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55 hardtop finally finished
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56Cabrio
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2008
Posts: 1899
Location: San Fernando Valley, CA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 12:30 am Post subject: |
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| Bruce wrote: |
If you look at the shape of the top half of the tank, you'll see that the sides are almost perfectly square to the top. Imagine the die pressing this shape. That is a VERY deep pressing. If the sides were tapered a bit, it would be much easier to make nice flat sides.
All you need to do is look at the 56-59 tank. That front face has either horizontal or vertical strengthening ribs pressed into it to cure just this problem with the pre-55 tank.
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My 56 rag has the vertical pressings in the tank but my 56 vert has no pressings and its sucked in ?
Dave
SFV
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1956 Rag Top owned since 1988
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Louis
Samba Member
Joined: September 26, 2007
Posts: 423
Location: canada BC
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| Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 2:12 am Post subject: |
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| vacuum geeks: 1 point |
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Bruce
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 17285
Location: Left coast, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 10:55 am Post subject: |
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| Louis wrote: |
| vacuum geeks: 1 point |
No, the tank Dave (56Cabrio) describes without the pressings is warped because the top half of the later tank is a very DEEPLY drawn steel pressing. That is what happens when you try to stretch steel that much.
Have a look again at the 56-60 tank up a few posts. Why do you think those 4 vertical pressings are there? Decoration?
They were put there to stop the wavyness caused by the original pressing.
Post a pic, Dave.
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| overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote: |
| ..... a steering wheel made from a mastadon tusk..... |
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BugMan114
Samba Member
Joined: March 22, 2007
Posts: 3744
Location: Ellenwood, GA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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how do you know they weren't put there to solve a vacume problem? the "why did they put those pressings there" argument could still go either way. unless we know exactly why they put those pressings there, its still just random speculation on everyone's part.
I just can't see VW letting wavy tanks leave the factory. why would they let such an obvious defect leave the factory. but again, thats just speculation. unless someone can come up with actuall proof, such as an article, or someone who actually worked at VW during that time, or something released from VW saying why they put the pressings there, this thread is going nowhere.
_________________
1974 Super Beetle: Custom resto in progress
1972 Super Beetle: Daily Driver
1971 Std. Beetle w/ 1929 Mercedes Benz Gazelle kit
1960 Baja Bug
1969 Baja Bug
Sand Rail- Homemade
Sand Rail- FUBAR
Aircooled Airheads
Why the hell do they call it a gland nut. its obviously a big fat bolt!!! |
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slow36hp
scott wimberley
Joined: August 09, 2004
Posts: 3113
Location: mukilteo washington
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Louis
Samba Member
Joined: September 26, 2007
Posts: 423
Location: canada BC
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| Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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slow 36hp.. i have a front bumper if you need, its not rusty but a bit bumpy...
PM me if you need it, you can have it for free but shipping might suck...
cheers! |
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Bruce
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 17285
Location: Left coast, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:08 am Post subject: |
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| BugMan114 wrote: |
| how do you know they weren't put there to solve a vacume problem? |
Because there is NO VACUUM in the tank when you have a vented cap. Don't you think it's a little odd that nobody has come up with a gas cap that was completely plugged, yet 100% of the tanks surviving are warped? Where are all these plugged gas caps that caused the tank warpage?
_________________
| overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote: |
| ..... a steering wheel made from a mastadon tusk..... |
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Bruce
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 17285
Location: Left coast, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:12 am Post subject: |
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| slow36hp wrote: |
| ..... tires and luggage are a reasonable culprit. |
The tire doesn't touch the tank.
Not likely luggage on the forward (tire) side of the tank.
I checked my zwitter tank yesterday. Warped on all 4 sides of the top pressing. Also warped on the sides of the bottom pressing.
Strangely, (for you vacuum nerds), the weakest surface of all (the top) is perfectly straight!
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| overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote: |
| ..... a steering wheel made from a mastadon tusk..... |
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