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vwclap
Samba Member
Joined: April 21, 2004
Posts: 519
Location: Qc, Canada
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 Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 6:19 pm Post subject: 36 hp WW okrasa suggestion |
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Hi,
I have a 56 bug
a 36 hp
A recut cam with porsche 1500 super profile
a WW okrasa kit
a 009
I want that the bug be a (relatively) strong week end driver. Not a bonneville speed winner candidate but a bug with character and drivability... any suggestions for a winter project and where to find:
Looking for suggestions about:
Crank
Piston cylinder dimensions
compression ratio
etc...
I saw a tread in the past about that but could not find it!
Thanks and regards
_________________
Claude
cox 1956, 1962 et 1975
Split panel 1963
Samba 21 fenetres 1966
Ghia 1968
Sport Ghia 73
West 1970
Jetta 1992
Jetta TDI 2015
West Multivan 2002 |
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Glenn 
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76910
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 6:21 pm Post subject: Re: 36 hp WW okrasa suggestion |
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| vwclap wrote: |
Hi,
I have a 56 bug
a 36 hp
A recut cam with porsche 1500 super profile
a WW okrasa kit
a 009
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Get a 010.. it's more in character with the Okrasa kit and its a better choice.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
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60ragtop
Bonneville Belt Bitch
Joined: March 13, 2006
Posts: 7800
Location: Big Wonderful WYO 82401
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| Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| I put in a stroker crank in mine and cam from Joe Ruiz/Mr. Okrasa.Along with the WW kit. Kept the stock pistons but boosted the C/R to around 8.2 -1. Runs real well and am happy with the performance. It cruises 80MPH now no problem. 009 works OK with it. If you do a search about vintage speed on this site, you will find lots of info. like in one case the 010 does not work as well as the 009 according to one person. |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76910
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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| 60ragtop wrote: |
| like in one case the 010 does not work as well as the 009 according to one person. |
I'd like to see that.
The original Okrasa kit came with a 010. The 009 didn't come out to the late 60s, well after the kit was discontinued.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
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60ragtop
Bonneville Belt Bitch
Joined: March 13, 2006
Posts: 7800
Location: Big Wonderful WYO 82401
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| Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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As they say search is your friend  I did not state it was correct only that it works with the engine. |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76910
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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| 60ragtop wrote: |
| As they say search is your friend I did not state it was correct only that it works with the engine. |
I'll pass.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
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joe h.
Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2005
Posts: 782
Location: Seattle, Wa
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| Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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| 60ragtop wrote: |
| As they say search is your friend I did not state it was correct only that it works with the engine. |
You may want to think twice before arguing with Glenn about Bosch distributors..........  |
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millerje78
Samba Amishman
Joined: October 16, 2005
Posts: 2445
Location: Holmes County, Ohio
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| Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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| joe h. wrote: |
| 60ragtop wrote: |
| As they say search is your friend I did not state it was correct only that it works with the engine. |
You may want to think twice before arguing with Glenn about Bosch distributors.......... |
some folks argue just for the sake of argument.
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always seeking a better way
my 73 standard project
do your research, consult with experts, and buy quality parts. you won't be sorry |
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gimmesomeshelter
Samba Member
Joined: May 08, 2004
Posts: 1466
Location: San Carlos, CA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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Hello-
A nice place to start. http://www.oldspeed.ch/pages/press-souping.htm
Paul
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"I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned."
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splitpile
Samba's Worst Speller
Joined: May 03, 2000
Posts: 5927
Location: back to living where hell meets the suface
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| Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Glenn wrote: |
| 60ragtop wrote: |
| like in one case the 010 does not work as well as the 009 according to one person. |
I'd like to see that.
The original Okrasa kit came with a 010. The 009 didn't come out to the late 60s, well after the kit was discontinued. |
Come to the next dyno session when I'm done assembly of the WW Okrassa with the new mods and I'll try every dizzy you want to throw at it. The 009 (German) just worked best, numbers don't lie. The CB billet dizzy seems to work even better once the curve was reset.
Of course with all the new mods done I will try the 009, 010, 019,050 (seems 356 guys like these the best) and the CB again and see which one works best across the board. 010 are great but sometimes some engines just don't like them (of course mine could of had problems  )
Remember that the WW Okrassa loves and needs a LOT of timing
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Stocking distributor of "The Funky Green Panels"
www.BUSTORATION.com metal and more for your bus
"no more hacking my sig line" |
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grueni
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2008
Posts: 582
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 3:25 am Post subject: |
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glenn is definitly the man if diizies but 36er has a semi hemi semi hemi chamber and very small bore diameter...those engines like more advance. the 010 is the best looking and the right to go with the okrasa that is totally right, but its not the best for performance. i use a mallory dizzi on mine and have 28° advance at the moment + 12-13° at idle. this work best for me.
and on the blown stock engine i have even more at idle with the stock one +boost retard tin.
times changes and fuel also ...
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60ragtop
Bonneville Belt Bitch
Joined: March 13, 2006
Posts: 7800
Location: Big Wonderful WYO 82401
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| Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 5:47 am Post subject: |
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| joe h. wrote: |
| 60ragtop wrote: |
| As they say search is your friend I did not state it was correct only that it works with the engine. |
You may want to think twice before arguing with Glenn about Bosch distributors.......... |
Not arguing |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76910
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 5:49 am Post subject: |
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| 60ragtop wrote: |
| joe h. wrote: |
| 60ragtop wrote: |
| As they say search is your friend I did not state it was correct only that it works with the engine. |
You may want to think twice before arguing with Glenn about Bosch distributors.......... |
Not arguing |
I didn't think you were.
I'd like to see the dyno graphs showing the different distributors.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
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joe h.
Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2005
Posts: 782
Location: Seattle, Wa
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| Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Glenn wrote: |
| 60ragtop wrote: |
| joe h. wrote: |
| 60ragtop wrote: |
| As they say search is your friend I did not state it was correct only that it works with the engine. |
You may want to think twice before arguing with Glenn about Bosch distributors.......... |
Not arguing |
I didn't think you were.
I'd like to see the dyno graphs showing the different distributors. |
Just my attempt at a little humor.........don't worry, I'll keep my day job.
Personally, I feel for a Vintage Speed engine one should run a Vintage Speed distributor......... unless you are really trying to squeeze every last pony out of it for land speed, 36hp challenge etc. Otherwise you may as well drop in a 1600 dual port.
I too would love to see dyno #'s. Even with a magneto. |
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splitpile
Samba's Worst Speller
Joined: May 03, 2000
Posts: 5927
Location: back to living where hell meets the suface
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| Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 9:58 am Post subject: |
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Mind you on all our dyno runs all OLDER dizzys were used and never tested on a dizzy machine to see if they were in spec, With the CB unit we were able to set where the advance started and where it stopped and how long it took to get there, we are after max kackle. I'm waiting for CB to release there total control dizzy. You can set all the timing with a laptop and adjust it accordingly to the engine. So while on the dyno we will be able to adjust it at each rpm range for MAX KACKLE.
I do have a Joe Hung mag we were thinking of trying also.
I should send them all to Glen (he is DIZZY GOD) and have him check them and do it all over again, but I found what works for me and will leave it at that.
By NO MEANS do I claim to be an expert, just seat of the pants trying to make power, trying everything to see what works best, I don't care what number is on it.
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Stocking distributor of "The Funky Green Panels"
www.BUSTORATION.com metal and more for your bus
"no more hacking my sig line" |
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Roadcow
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2003
Posts: 1012
Location: Stockton, Ca. area
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| Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 11:00 am Post subject: |
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Most of the LSR guys use Ed Fall and I will only use him for my Distributor needs. I've seen him work and he has all of the correct Bosch equipment and his stock of parts is amazing. I watched him go through several springs to get it just right when he rebuilt the 010 for me last year. Gave me a printout of the curve at rpm for my distributor also.
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71 Westy Roadcow
67 Panel
63 Bug
66 Ghia Bonneville 2014
74 Ghia Vert
69 Bonneville Ghia 150 in Chico
69 Bonneville Ghia in Ireland
80 Cabby 2.1 16v
98 Passat |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76910
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 11:13 am Post subject: |
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All I can say is, if you what period correct, then go with a 010. If you want to squeeze the most for a 36hp speed record... use the Mallory since it's adjustable and has ball bearings for the shaft (if that's allowed by the rules).
The 009 was not introduced to the market until after the Okrasa kit was discontinued.
As to my ability to rebuild the old cast iron distributors, just read my feedback.
If you are going for a 36hp LSR, you are probably using Art Thraen for some parts and machine work. Art and Ed are friends and are geographically close to each other, so it makes sense to have Ed do your distributor work along with the fuel pump and carbs rebuilds. Ed's a great guy and I have the utmost respect for his has a person and his work.
| splitpile wrote: |
| I should send them all to Glen (he is DIZZY GOD) |
I'm just a guy that has a niche specialty. I have no divine powers.
If you want to send them to me and cover the return shipping I'll be happy to run them on my Sun Distributor Tester.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
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vwclap
Samba Member
Joined: April 21, 2004
Posts: 519
Location: Qc, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for all the replies...and all the discussions about the distributors choice.
Paul I will read the old speed document this week..and probably will have more questions 
I am not a challenger to LSR...just a sunday driver . I like the option to go period with the 010.
A friend of me just built his and put a 356 distributor in it not sure if it is a 018 or 022. Is it a good choice due to the profile of the cam?
About the crank and piston and cylinder what are my choice for a reliable and strong engine (if we can put that in the same sentence....
Joe Ruiz stroker crank is there other choices?
Thanks
Claude
_________________
Claude
cox 1956, 1962 et 1975
Split panel 1963
Samba 21 fenetres 1966
Ghia 1968
Sport Ghia 73
West 1970
Jetta 1992
Jetta TDI 2015
West Multivan 2002 |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76910
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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| vwclap wrote: |
A friend of me just built his and put a 356 distributor in it not sure if it is a 018 or 022. Is it a good choice due to the profile of the cam?
Thanks
Claude |
The BR18 and 022 have the same curve. They have 32-33 degrees advance which is way too much for a VW. Also the curve is too aggressive.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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vwclap
Samba Member
Joined: April 21, 2004
Posts: 519
Location: Qc, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Glenn wrote: |
| vwclap wrote: |
A friend of me just built his and put a 356 distributor in it not sure if it is a 018 or 022. Is it a good choice due to the profile of the cam?
Thanks
Claude |
The BR18 and 022 have the same curve. They have 32-33 degrees advance which is way too much for a VW. Also the curve is too aggressive. |
Thanks Glenn
We are learning! 
Claude
_________________
Claude
cox 1956, 1962 et 1975
Split panel 1963
Samba 21 fenetres 1966
Ghia 1968
Sport Ghia 73
West 1970
Jetta 1992
Jetta TDI 2015
West Multivan 2002 |
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