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EvanB Samba Member
Joined: August 17, 2010 Posts: 121 Location: Chillicothe/Findlay, Ohio
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Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:18 am Post subject: using a Bug title for a Railbuggy |
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If I was to buy a Railbuggy that didn't have a title, and find an older Beetle that had a title, would I be able to use the Beetle title for the buggy? |
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retterath Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2004 Posts: 661 Location: SW Washington state
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Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:44 am Post subject: |
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Legally, no. The vin on the bug is tied to the pan and the body, neither of wich you're using. |
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20365 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:14 am Post subject: |
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And its Federal violation to alter a vin or move it to a vehicle which it was not originally assigned to....
http://www.justice.gov/usao/eousa/foia_reading_room/usam/title9/crm01364.htm
Dale _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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EvanB Samba Member
Joined: August 17, 2010 Posts: 121 Location: Chillicothe/Findlay, Ohio
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Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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Then how do people get away with junking a beetle to make a buggy and still using the beetle title?
I've heard of a lot of people doing it and putting a 'body modification' on the title.
I'm not trying to start an argument, just trying to figure this whole title thing out. Thanks for everyone help! |
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Cuog Samba Member
Joined: July 15, 2008 Posts: 509 Location: Richmond VA
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Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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You can do it, and you won't get in trouble 9/10 times. But all it takes is one cop low on his quota or in a bad mood just waiting to get back at someone, and lucky you just drove past. Now your nice buggy goes to impound and you've got to jump through a million hoops to get your car back and hopefully not face lots of fines and worse.
Thanks but no thanks, title it right. |
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GeorgeL Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2006 Posts: 7346
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Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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EvanB wrote: |
Then how do people get away with junking a beetle to make a buggy and still using the beetle title? |
Most of those were done by putting a fiberglass body onto the titled VW pan. The pan carries the stamped VIN along with the running gear and therefore is (legally) the vehicle.
This sort of "body swap" has been common with over-the-road trucks for decades. They would often be rebuilt with everything new except the frame in order to save money on taxes.
Now, welding a torsion housing containing the VIN onto a tube chassis is pushing that concept a bit. That sort of vehicle is just too far out of the ordinary to avoid scrutiny. |
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ZARJDR Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2008 Posts: 1039 Location: Eureka, Ca
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Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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I titled my sandrail in Nazi occupied California. I had nothing for the chassis except receipt/bill of sale. I produced receipts for major parts(engine/trans etc), made appt with CHP for a VIN verification and had it titled, a new VIN tag installed, and paperwork issued in less than an hour. It cost me less than $100.00. Go figure. _________________ 2006 RAM 1500 HEMI 4X4 92 LT250
06 Raptor DP1776 Sandrail
02 HONDA 400EX
03 YAMAHA WR450F 74 BAJA |
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20365 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:54 am Post subject: |
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ZARJDR wrote: |
I titled my sandrail in Nazi occupied California. I had nothing for the chassis except receipt/bill of sale. I produced receipts for major parts(engine/trans etc), made appt with CHP for a VIN verification and had it titled, a new VIN tag installed, and paperwork issued in less than an hour. It cost me less than $100.00. Go figure. |
Some times you get lucky....
Dale _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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cherokee Samba Member
Joined: June 11, 2009 Posts: 160 Location: Kansas City
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Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 11:44 am Post subject: |
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I need to do this in missouri...anyone know the procedure on how to do this?
I bought the buggy from a guy here at work...got the bill of sale and want to make it street legal.
Thanks. |
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turboblue Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2003 Posts: 4216 Location: Central Indiana
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Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 11:55 am Post subject: |
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Insurance companies will leave you twisting in the wind if you use a bug title, not tell them, and have an issue.
As far as they know they were insuring a Beetle not a rail buggy.
See if you can even get insurance on it before you go through a title hassle. _________________ Gary
Turbo VW Sand Drag Buggy
"If you don't run into the Devil every once in awhile, you must be going in the same direction!" |
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joescoolcustoms Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2006 Posts: 9054 Location: West By God Virginia
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Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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The friends I have in Ohio use a old beetle, cut out the VIN number and weld it to the same area of the rail, scrap the beetle and use the title to get it licensed. It is accepted in Ohio.
Last weekend I saw over 20 buggies drive into Larry's Off road Show in Dayton Ohio with license plates hung on them. _________________ Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race
Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.
Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone |
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20365 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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joescoolcustoms wrote: |
The friends I have in Ohio use a old beetle, cut out the VIN number and weld it to the same area of the rail, scrap the beetle and use the title to get it licensed. It is accepted in Ohio.
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Validity of doing this is not a state issue its federal.....
Yes it works, and yes its illegal, and yes some get away with it....
Dale _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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joescoolcustoms Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2006 Posts: 9054 Location: West By God Virginia
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Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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I just called and spoke to the Ohio BMV at the following:
License Plate Registration Information and
Special License Plate Requests
(614) 752-7800
1-800-589-8247 Ohio Only
Monday - Friday
8:00 a.m. - 5:30 p.m. (Eastern)
From this website:
http://www.bmv.ohio.gov/contact.stm
They told me if I was a Ohio resident, that all I needed to do was bring in the title for the VW that parts were used to make the rail buggy and they would give me a set of license plates. I would per state law have to have insurance on it.
I would encourage the Original Poster to call this number and varify this to ensure you local detatchment of the Ohio BMV would do this. _________________ Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race
Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.
Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone |
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Ed Carp Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2008 Posts: 213 Location: sonora california
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Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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ZARJDR wrote: |
I titled my sandrail in Nazi occupied California. I had nothing for the chassis except receipt/bill of sale. I produced receipts for major parts(engine/trans etc), made appt with CHP for a VIN verification and had it titled, a new VIN tag installed, and paperwork issued in less than an hour. It cost me less than $100.00. Go figure. |
ditto _________________ 1969 money pit, i mean baja.
chenoworth look alike sand rail
i believe bugpack rail? |
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EvanB Samba Member
Joined: August 17, 2010 Posts: 121 Location: Chillicothe/Findlay, Ohio
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 4:22 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for all the responses!
The buggy I was looking at got sold before I had a chance to go see it, but this will def. help in the future. |
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joemama Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2006 Posts: 1635 Location: La Crescenta, California
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 9:09 am Post subject: |
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for the 2 guys who titled their sand rails in california, wasnt this just for green sticker, offroad only? |
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yamaducci Samba Member
Joined: March 30, 2010 Posts: 2335 Location: Mount Airy, Maryland
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Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 11:24 am Post subject: |
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On the East Coast (Md, VA) I have seen most rails use the rear torsion housing with e rear portion of the tunnel that has the Vin stamping. They just do a real clean job of incorporating it into the frame and then you have to use the stearing column and you are legal for "Street Rod" tags.
Don't think about telling the insurance company what it is or ever try to make a claim. They will likely drop you. I tried just to get my Manx style buggy insured and they said no (StateFarm) as well as all underwriters including Grundy and kit car insurance co's because they said it had an "Open Engine compartment" and "the potential to go off road"
I can understand the open compartment but any car/truck can go off road. I waited a year and told them I bought a beetle. It was the only way!
Peek Performance had a rail in the showroom done like this. Call them _________________ -John Cox
My 2498 Turbo Re-Build Thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5578697#5578697
3rd Brake Light Safety Stars- I still have a couple with blue light left. Email me if interested. |
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twomonkeysayoyo Samba Member
Joined: November 17, 2009 Posts: 651 Location: Carrollton, GA
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Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 11:48 am Post subject: |
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I had a bad experience like your Statefarm with Statefarm and USAA. When I asked USAA about whether or not I could autox a miata they just dropped me (though I had never, then). When I asked Statefarm about it, they said they wouldn't insure me. Allstate on the other hand didn't give a damn. The agent said "you aren't covered when you are racing it, but it doesn't affect your coverage when you are driving it on the roads, to the race, or whatever." Farmbureau also didn't care. I'm getting the baja insured through Haggardy's (sp?) which specializes in classic/restored auto's, I think. Still waiting on that... _________________ ---
Looks like trouble. |
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GeorgeL Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2006 Posts: 7346
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Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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twomonkeysayoyo wrote: |
I had a bad experience like your Statefarm with Statefarm and USAA. When I asked USAA about whether or not I could autox a miata they just dropped me (though I had never, then). |
Remember, anything you ask an insurance company is recorded and as private businesses they can make any assumption that they like about what your intentions are. They also share information so if you simply inquire about (say) "water damage coverage" on a homeowner's policy you'll be flagged as a "mold risk" on the insurers' database. They're in business to make money and any question about coverage is a potential loss to them.
Best is not to ask. Read the policy for your answers. |
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joescoolcustoms Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2006 Posts: 9054 Location: West By God Virginia
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Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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State Farm insured my buggy with no problems. They even took pictures of it to document what is was.
In WV, you can get a antique tag that has driving limits on the vehicle. It no longer needs to have a yearly inspection, can only be driven after 5 PM from Friday to Monday 2 AM, to/from parades, to/from garage, to/from car shows or holidays. So with that restriction, State Farm insured it for an agreed upon value of $ 6000 for a price of $ 17.00 per month with 100 K/300 K liabality. _________________ Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race
Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.
Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone |
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