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Clutch will not engage
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PeterA
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:26 pm    Post subject: Clutch will not engage Reply with quote

Help! My clutch will not engage (disconnect the eng from trans) fully.
I have just put my 1968 beetle back together after 1 1/2 yrs of work.
I did nothing to engine or trans other than new clutch cable and trans mounts. Cable is very tight (too tight from what I can tell), but had to start the car in gear to get going.

Clutch was okay when I took eng trans out to work or rusty body and interior.

Any ideas? I hate the idea of dropping engine again (hard to do alone), but have no ideas. I though it was a clutch plate rusted to flywheel but have ruled this out.

Thanks for the help

Pete
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Jeckler
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Using your hand to push on the clutch pedal, how much freeplay is there until the throwout bearing touches the pressure plate? Keep in mind that you're overcoming the return spring resistance too.
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PeterA
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:13 pm    Post subject: Clutch will not engage Reply with quote

The way I have it now there is zero play. I just tightened it in the hope it would disengage. Maybe a bad pilot bearing?

It worked fine when I took it out though.

Thanks for any help.

Pete
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

this happened to me twice after long rebuilds. i found that when i pressure washed the engines with the clutch still in place. it caused the metal between the pads on the clutch to rust and "puff up" a little. by just looking at the clutch pad, it looked fine but if you cant put a 8 mm wrench of the edge of the clutch then it is not fine and will not work.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Take a look at your clutch tube - make sure it is seated properly at the tunnel end and the clamp/arm on the tranny. It should have a bit of a downward curve.

Did you adjust your pedal stop at all or do anything to the pedals? You may want to try adjusting the pedal stop to bring the pedals toward you a little and see what happens.

I would check this stuff before you pull the engine.
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PeterA
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The engine is in the car now so I cannot see the clutch. The engine was in my garage the 1 1/2 yrs i worked on the chassis and body. Everything was dry at a minimum. I will check the boden tube again. The old one may have had a washer. I did completely remove, clean and paint the pedal assembly, but it seems okay.

I have the cable set very tight (too tight to be normal) just to see if I can get the clutch to slip enough to get in gear.

I have driven around the block, but only by starting with tRans in gear and a little double clutching to shift. Not a good thing.

Help much appreciated
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PeterA
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:02 pm    Post subject: This Clutch will be my end Reply with quote

Help!!
I have checked the Boden tube and it looks good. I have adjusted all the play out of the cable (what seemes to be the to bearing shaft return spring). I could be getting this wrong though.

I have aslo tried to adjust as tight as it will go but still does not disengage.

and still does not disengage eng from trans!!!

any other idea before I pull this apart?? Brick wall

I have driven it, by starting in gear and depressing the clutch does make a difference, but not enough. Still drags.


Ideas welcome!!

Thanks

Pete
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK - one more time - adjust the pedal stop (to allow the pedal to come closer to the seat) This will give you more throw on the pedal. I forget what the correct distance is from the pedal to firewall, but it's in your manula.

Are you basically getting some grinding when trying to put it in gear with the pedal pushed in but it operates properly otherwise? The car shifts in and out of all gears OK, correct? This may solve your problem becasue you have a wider range of motion and adjustment.

You said you did pull the engine and tranny when doing body work. If you replaced the mounts, it will change the tranny location a little. I just installed a new tranny in our 61 and the wing nut is almost at the end of the cable, where it used to have about 1/2" of thread at the end. So - its really not a surprise that your adjustments are way off now.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you confirm the clutch is the correct one for your transmission? Could the ring on the pressure plate fingers have fallen off in the 1.5 years it was out?
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PeterA
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:21 am    Post subject: I am trying but ... Reply with quote

Thanks for you advice.

I cannot find, a description of how to adjust the clutch pedal (only brake pedal). I have J.M. And Bentley

I will check the cable by the pedal cluster for a kink (bentley said something)
I will look at the boden tube again for
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PeterA
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:24 am    Post subject: Second part Reply with quote

I will look at the boden tube again, but am knot really sure of what to look for (could it be slipping?)

Any ideas are welcome.

Thanks

Pete
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PeterA
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:31 am    Post subject: Couple more points Reply with quote

The trans is the same one I got with the car. It was driven daily until it was parked for 8 yrs under an old oak. When I got it it ran fine (except for all rotten fuel lines). For this reason I think it should work again.

The clutch is not disengaging much (I can tell when it is parked). If I put it in gear when standing still, I can get going and double clutch to shift (otherwise it would grind).

I have replaced trans mounts and rebuilt the pedal cluster and replaced the clutch cable.

Pete
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a stop plate under your pedals. It is bolted to the floor and is slotted. Loosen the bolt and it will slide back and forth. Slide it so that the pedals are closer to the seat by maybe an inch. Then readjust your clutch cable so that it disengages when pushed in, but you have some free pedal when you push it in.

Ya know - for what these damn Bentleys cost, they should have basic stuff like this in all of them. Its not in my late manual either, but the stop adjustment is in my 61-65 manual.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 7:18 pm    Post subject: Desparate to dissengage Reply with quote

There is a stop plate under your pedals. It is bolted to the floor and is slotted. Loosen the bolt and it will slide back and forth. Slide it so that the pedals are closer to the seat by maybe an inch. Then readjust your clutch cable so that it disengages when pushed in, but you have some free pedal when you push it in.

Ya know - for what these damn Bentleys cost, they should have basic stuff like this in all of them. Its not in my late manual either, but the stop adjustment is in my 61-65 manual.

andk5591
Thanks for your reply! The stop plate on my car only adjusts the brake pedal. Mine is a July '68 (don't know if this changed between models).

I read another post which got me to thinking, maybe my problem is that the new cable is too long and is blocked by the tube in the tunnel. There was comment about thee being two pedal assembly types and different cable types.

KTPhil wrote, Tue Apr 06, 2010 12:25 pm

This is the key dimension that changed on the cable eye. The longer "collar" length can hit the end of cable tube in the frame tunnel.

Image may have been reduced in size. Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

What do you think?

1. The Bowden tube looks good (new)
2. Same eng and Trans as wroked before R&R of eng
3. New cable

I do not want to remove the engine if not needed.

Thanks

Pete

P.S. I am riding the bus while this saga continues
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you SURE that the plate wont adjust the clutch pedal as well - I know that I have done this and I just did some digging and it does adjust BOTH pedals. Measure the distance from the top pf pedal to the firewall. Loosen the stop a little and tap it toward the firewall. You should have increased the distance from the pedal to the firewall. I would add at least 3/4".
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Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard project at wife's request and your gonna die when you see this one.
Seven-D - 70 standard that Cindy and just rescued.
OMG - just bought 3 more.......
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PeterA
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

andk5591
I had to have the nut in the floor pan welded (it was cracked and PO put a bolt thru to a large steel plat under the pan to hold the little stop plate).

Both manuals show nothing and Bentley states no adjustment, but I have seen things different on the car at time so I will take another look.

I plan to take out the pedal ass'bly next in any case.

How far should the clutch cable move (at the exit of the Bowden tube) from pedal at top to pedal at bottom?

or put another way,

How far should the clutch lever on the Trans move?

Mine moves about 12 mm or 1/2 inch.

PLEASE HELP GET ME OFF THE BUS AND BACK INTO A CAR.

I have tomorrow off and will be doing everything I can think of.''Your inputs are helpful.

Thanks

Peter
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Cusser
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PeterA wrote:

How far should the clutch lever on the Trans move?
Mine moves about 12 mm or 1/2 inch.


That's not enough. I'm guessing about 1.5 to 2 inches. Be patient, someone here will check on theirs as they crawl under today.
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PeterA
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cusser
THANKS!!
I also checked to see that the tube was not broken loose in the tunnel. At least the rear weld is good.

Pete
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:31 am    Post subject: Re: Desparate to dissengage Reply with quote

PeterA wrote:

I read another post which got me to thinking, maybe my problem is that the new cable is too long and is blocked by the tube in the tunnel. There was comment about thee being two pedal assembly types and different cable types.



if you think the cable is too long, here is a test i tried on mine before i found out it was the clutch. i took a ratchet strap and hooked one end to the throwout bearing lever arm. i hooked the other to a spot toward the front of the car. i tightened the strap to see if the clutch would disengage. then start the car in neutral and see if you can put it in gear and carefully with the coil wire off, try to start the car with the car in gear and see if it moves. my clutch never disengaged, even with the strap really tight.
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PeterA
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pafree

Thanks, great idea. I will try it. I did compare the old and new cables before I tossed the old one. They should have been the same lenght (self doubt creeping in here).

I am hoping some one can tell the approx adount of cable diplacement I should be seeing on a working cable at the clutch. My 1/2 inch seems short.

Cusser's comment to check is another good point.

I like ideas which do not have me tearing out the engine too fast (unless I have to).

Thanks!!!
Pete
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