36 horse header

TomSimon · Samba Member Joined: January 13, 2004 Posts: 751

Hi Ronnie,
you might find that 1-3/8" diameter is still too large for a 1200cc 4cylinder. I am no authority on the subject, in fact few are. It seems header selection is more experience meets science meets art Laughing

But there are several configurations that I have seen work great, so have other VW guys who dyno tune like Geoff.

There are several performance books with section on header selection, you can run through the math, contact Burns Stainless online (they will do the work for you) or just run a simple trend or 'sanity check' against what guys already use with Type 1 engines. (I've done this for you, below).

I think this will get you very close to optimal, rather than relying on what is kinda available, or cutting up and shortening an existing T1 header designed for an engine with a significantly larger displacement. This also works for larger than 1200 (bored and stroked 36hp) Since I've used ratios, you can just divide for you own factor, using whatever new displacement you build or intend to build.

I would also want to use a real 'merged' collector, rather than one of those stubby 'extractor-type' sort of collector things that are cheap to build, but don't look very impressive (inside) in terms of internal flow.

My 'sanity check' methodology: Base header tube diameter on what I know works:

case #1 that works: 1600cc type 1 with dual port heads, 009 dist, Kadrons. Max rpm of 5500rpm, you real basic warmed over street engine. Most tests will lead you toward the optimal header being 32" primary tube length and 1-3/8" diameter. Good low end torque without taking anything away at 5500 rpm. Some will use a 1-1/2" header with sucess, but use a 1-5/8" header and you will see bottom end torque fall off at lower rpms, with little or no gains in torque at 5500rpm. 1-3/8" would work great for a street car.

case #2 that works: 2000cc type 1 with small ports and 40IFD's, W110 cam, max rpm 5500. optimized for low end torque, a great Bus engine. 1-1/2" A1 Sidewinder is perfect.

case #3 2387cc drag engine, high compression, 8000rpm. Most guys will find that 1-7/8" to 2" header with 32" primaries will fit the bill. A 2-1/8" may help, may not.

From the examples above that I know to be true, I would assert that header tube diameter is more a function of engine displacement, and only somewhat dependent on rpm range. Would you agree? BTW, look at the itty-bitty header tubes used on 4 cylinder motorcycle headers.

side note: header tube diameter <more or less> goes by single cylinder volume and rpm, but all my examples are 4 cyl engines, so we can just use total cc's to arrive at a factor (for comparison's sake).

1200cc/1600cc= .75 factor
1200cc/2000cc= .60 factor
1200cc/2387cc= .50 factor

Using some simple ratio math, my estimation is a 1200cc torque monster engine wants a header with primary tubes somewhere between a 1" and 1-1/8" diameter, and a small collector to match. A 1200cc high rpm race engine might like the 1-1/8", but a guy might try a 1-1/4" for giggles and grins. Like putting an 1-3/4" diameter header on a 1600cc engine, I estimate that a 1-3/8" header on a 1200cc 36hp is far too large for a 1200cc, and will sacrifice low end torque without helping torque at high RPM's.

It would still be worth looking at A. Graham Bell's book Performance Four Stroke Tuning and talking to Vince at Burns before building a custom header.
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jake74 · Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:05 am Post subject:

I've been trying to get one of the 36 hp headers but haven't got a reply from slowanold on getting one.

I have had no luck contacting him.If someone know's how to contact him let me know.
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Mr. Motorhead · Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:46 am Post subject:

I do have one new in the box that I bought from him a while back. I bought two, one to use, one to sell. I have some shipping $$ invested in it so I couldn't do $40. If you can't get a hold of him LMK and I'll make you a deal.
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Snort · Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 4:44 pm Post subject:

I ran across this today while searching for some other things, and remembered this thread.

http://www.kustom1warehouse.net/36_hp_header_for_VW_Volkswagen_p/36hpheader.htm

splitpile · Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 3:28 pm Post subject:

The Cheetle · Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 12:24 pm Post subject:

I bought one, bolted right on!! Good quality and only $40! plus shipping.
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Stock Steve · Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:47 am Post subject:

Looks like they are still selling them(?!).

At any rate, I ordered one today (12/7/2012) online.

With shipping it's just about exactly $100 to my house (basis price today is $80).

I have a stock 36hp '60 Bug and thought it might be cool to have the option for this kind of exhaust...

Does anyone know if they (Kustom1Warehouse) have glasspack mufflers and gaskets that are compatible with this? And/or even perhaps (yikes) a stinger?

Say, for instance, would the single glasspack P/N 3322, on page 124 work? Ref.: http://www.kustom1warehouse.net/Large_3_bolt_exhaust_headers_and_mufflers_for_VW_p/page124.htm

I'll try giving them a call also to see what might be available for mufflers. etc...

Edit: More browsing, came across this cip1 glasspack (@ "xmas blowout" yet): http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C13%2D3322

Thanks for any advice, suggestions...
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Mr. Motorhead · Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:12 pm Post subject:

Any large flange muffler or stinger fits from whomever it may come from. Last one I bought for one of those headers was an EMPI glass pack.
_________________
30 years experience in the sales of new and used auto parts!
36 horsepower parts for sale at http://www.aircooledresearch.com/
Or the new site at http://www.bugparts.com
Check out the Bonneville project:
http://aircooledresearch.com/docs/thebonnevilleproject.html#

"All limitations are self imposed."
Some Chinese guy

Stock Steve · Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:21 pm Post subject:

Stock Steve · Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:04 am Post subject:

Header just came in from Kustom1--looks like a decent part. I'm definitely going to coat everything with hi-temp paint before I try installing it (some of whatever black coating they put on there was already scraped off, as-received):

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

I also got some Eastwood "Hi Temp Internal Exhaust Coating," and will also do my best to apply that to the inside of the header tubes, and also the glasspack muffler, whenever it arrives (ordered two different ones, from two other different companies):

Ref: http://www.amazon.com/Eastwood-Temperature-Internal-Exhaust-Coating/dp/B005VPPIQA/ref=lh_ni_t_mi
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Stock Steve · Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 3:33 am Post subject:

The glasspack muffler from CIP1 arrived via the UPS guy yesterday. Looks like a good quality unit, and looks like should work well with the header. Came with a gasket for connecting to the header too. Ref: http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C13-3322

Interesting that when you buy two separate parts like this (header and muffler) that neither seller supplies the fasteners for connecting the two together (at least not in this case). I'm sure I'll be able to scrounge some from my garage, though...

Going to spend a little more quality time with the hi-temp coatings, and then on to installation...
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txoval · Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:23 am Post subject:

CIP1 sells a similiar header for a 40HP...would it fit some modifications?

I'm looking to run J-tubes with it on my 36HP

Stock Steve · Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:06 am Post subject:

Ugh, I haven't posted back lately because the 36hp header I bought recently kinda didn't fit on my 36hp engine.

Will do my best to post more details eventually, and also ideas on how to proceed from here, since I still do want to be able to use it...
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txoval · Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:11 am Post subject:

Can anyone answer this?

RichardinNZ · Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:10 am Post subject:

Stock Steve
Does this mean that the Kustom-1 header won't fit any 36hp? I was hoping to get one!

Thanks
Richard
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snowbug · Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 3:45 pm Post subject: 40hp header

txoval · Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:19 pm Post subject:

Or better yet (at least for me) I could cut off the new flanges, rotate, and re-weld...

Thanks for the info

Stock Steve · Posted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 1:15 am Post subject:

AirCooledClassics · Posted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 12:27 pm Post subject:

I just fit a 1600 cc oe mexican header muffler to a 40 hp engine .I slipped on the barrels only then slid on the heads .I then bolted up the exhaust to the loose heads then torqued the heads tight .I then took my torch to the head end elbows and watched the tube find its new shape ( no it didnt colapse it moved smoothly)I removed it and It now fits my 1.2 perfectly. I believe this would work on a 36 hp with j tubes and dual carbs. just right 1/3/8 tubing stock tailpipe location. and an atractive price of 70.00. If you want you could re weld the flange for the heat riser for a sock intake manifold.
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snowbug · Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 7:53 am Post subject:


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