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Engine Cooling and Cabin Heating System Tutorial
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Eric&Barb
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Before 1962 all type 1s had no rear heat vents. Yes will send more heat up front, but would help if you get all metal squirrel cage fans to push air forward.
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air-h2o-air
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reading through all of this info...is all great stuff....but what newbies do not realize is...just as we have ALL this talk we MUST have engine cooling louvers and T stats on our engines....back in the 70s and early 80s...we had the same exact talk that ALL that needed to be removed to keep engine with as much cool air as possible in the hot summer. This is 1 reason SO much of those parts are missing from these cars now a days. We ran external oil coolers back then too, without oil thermostats and never had any issues too.

With that said, we all must realize that if we don't use a stock muffler, we do loose some initial heat capture of our air due to air not passing over cyl #2 and #4 exhaust pipes.

My new to me(still sorting through it) 1972 std beetle now has NOS VoA German heat exchangers(I've had them on shelf for 40 years or so). I also put a stock replacement muffler as well...On a short run up the road yesterday....at 50mph in 4th gear....my LR heat temp was 245 degrees(using a calibrated digital thermometer). Now this was with a 49 degree ambient outside temp.

My engine has no T stat or louvers, but everything is sealed tight that passes air to the cabin of the car. The heater channels are original without 1 spot of rust. The tubes under rear seat have stock insulation. The tubes from heater boxes to body are stock and sealed tight to the body and heater boxes.

I realize the heated vent temp will drop severely with low outside ambient temps, as this was just a preliminary test to satisfy my curiosity. Being older and wiser(if what they claim is true)....I'm curious just how good I can make this heater....my 74 which I had in 1980...I put a gas heater in, trying to keep warm in the winter as that car was my daily transportation.

Most trunk lids do not seal well, even in uncrashed cars. This alone will make a dash drafty. All the cardboard tubing that supplies defrosting is paper tubing which is uninsulated. That heated air looses a large bit of heat as it travels upwards from the heater channels to the windshield. Most later bugs with the fresh air box, have boxes which do not shut off completely. It ONLY takes a small amount of cold air to ruin our ability to get the cabin of the cars warm.

If you have a good tight older bug that doesn't have the flow thru ventilation...cracking the vent window slightly will increase heated cabin air flow by a large measure. While this sounds odd...give it a try if you haven't...it works!
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air-h2o-air
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

21 degrees out tonight....heater temp at LR footwell was 208 max...running 55mph

stock NOS VWoA heater boxes
stock 1600dp
stock replacement muffler
NO power pulley on engine
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ROCKOROD71
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mnussbau wrote:
From a '74 convertible (same as sedan). That's some sort of heat-resistant red rubber around the edges of the flap to seal it when closed.
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Where can a guy get those little junction pieces to hook up the wire from the tunnel to the wire going into the y tube. I just kind of thought restoring this part was impossible. Was going back through this thread and saw this picture. Anyone have a good solution? Something a hardware store might have? Link to part available on the interwebs?

I also don't have the tubes coming from the tunnel that the cables are supposed to run through, but I figure I can pick some up and weld it in right? Anyone know the correct diameter tube to look for?
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30 years from now, the next guy may not want your girlfriend, but he may want your classic car, depending on how nice you were to it.


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Careful guys, a petulant child can grow up to be president these days.


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Eric&Barb
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Common screw type wiring connector used in pre-1961 VWs. Here is an image of such in a bus under the dash.

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79SuperVert
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ROCKOROD71 wrote:
Where can a guy get those little junction pieces to hook up the wire from the tunnel to the wire going into the y tube. I just kind of thought restoring this part was impossible. Was going back through this thread and saw this picture. Anyone have a good solution? Something a hardware store might have? Link to part available on the interwebs?


I searched on the internet but they are harder to find than I thought. I have a lot of them from the years I spent in my other hobby: model railroading. I used them for the wiring in all my layouts. If you can't find the connectors I'll be glad to send you a couple for free. PM me with your name and address.
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Clara Premium Member
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Helirich wrote:
Some questions. First, when I got my bug, it was summer in Florida. So I didn't look in to the heat much. Now we got a cold spell. If I pull the two levers between the seats, I get heat out of the floor vents. I think (but not sure) that the heat is stronger if the drivers lever is down.

But in any case, cold air comes out of the defrosters and the dash vents. I opened the hood and found that there are three hoses that come up from corners. Two of them are capped and the other goes up to the corner defrosters. The center box use to have tape over the top where the hood vents line up. I had torn that off, so I put a piece of rubber over that and closed the hood. I was thinking that the air was getting pressured up from that.

That helped slow down the cold air coming form the vents, but not quit. Now I understand that there should be hoses all over under there. But I don't understand why there is no heat from the corner defrosters. I plan to cover the dash vents from the back with foam for my short winter. I feel that I could live with the heat at my feet if there was no cold air on my face. Am I making any siense?


On my 69 bug, pulling the right lever up turns the heat on. Passengers sometimes push the heat off when clicking the seat belt.
Pull the left lever up for more heat to come out under the back seat.
Push the left lever down for more to come out by the front feet and windshield.
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My problem is that in damp weather turning the heat on makes the car kind of foggy. Kinda sorta a lot. Like a fog bubble. I have to drive with the vent wings cracked. It is damp weather here most of the year, and the bug is rarely in the garage. I also rarely drive it more than 20 miles in a day.
The window seals are good, though.
The cool air vents at the windshield do not close off. This is okay, because it defogs the windshields when the car is in motion. The hot air seems to only blow out the vents in the corners of the windshield, not right in front of the driver.
I probably need to sort out the hoses under the hood.

It got up into the fifties recently and the heat was so hot I pulled over to see if the engine was overheating. lol. It was fine.
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VolkDubz
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very cool post!
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babigo
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 3:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fuscao72 wrote:
Nice thread, thanx to ya all.

I have two 1996 (1600cc) and dual carbs from factory Fuscas (Beetles here in Brazil) equipped with this thermostat/grile on the deck lid. ( I took these shots from an old 1974 sun roof German made)
I really want to know what is that for? Some say it is in order to have the single carburetor ( we did have single and double carbs 1300/1600cc models) more ventilated (???) in situations where the internal deck lid's temp are too high. I do not agree with that, otherwise why were there dual carburetors models as my very own beetles, that came equipped with this system on the deck lid?
I seen it just as an outlet for a helping device to have more heated air extracted from the engine's bay as once the grile is open, it will provide more circulation of the internal air. In a nutshell, it is part of the cooling system...
Surely I do use in all my beetles the flaps and thermostats and I thank everyone for such an useful thread.
Thanx for viewing and greetings from Brazil.




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these flaps are in my car. I live in the 1300s and 1977 model cars Istanbul
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babigo
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 4:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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my car Oct. 26, 1976 Germany-emden factory production
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Juanito84
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At about what temp would that kind of a thermostat open? 30* C?
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babigo
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do not know how many degrees the opening, opening the way for a long time gone or congested traffic
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Teafortwo
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would like to purchase this flap and thermostat set up for my Vert. My engine lid appears to have the indentations for both the flaps and the thermostat. But they have never been fitted. I have checked the VW parts book but they don't appear to be there. So are they a Special?

Are these to be found in the USA? If you have a set for sale please PM me and let's see if we can do a deal.

Thank you and kind regards.
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Juanito84
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Teafortwo wrote:
I would like to purchase this flap and thermostat set up for my Vert. My engine lid appears to have the indentations for both the flaps and the thermostat. But they have never been fitted. I have checked the VW parts book but they don't appear to be there. So are they a Special?

Are these to be found in the USA? If you have a set for sale please PM me and let's see if we can do a deal.

Thank you and kind regards.


I don't think the lid flap and thermostat were ever a part of US VW's. Neat idea though.
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Eric&Barb
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check with the folks selling parts out of Mexico.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eric&Barb wrote:
Check with the folks selling parts out of Mexico.


¡Buena idea compadre!
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you find a source, please post the where/who.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 11:50 am    Post subject: Re: Engine Cooling and Cabin Heating System Tutorial Reply with quote

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(24 ) 133 827 601 Klappe (Flap)
(25 ) 133 827 611 Thermostat
(26 ) N 012 225 3 Federscheibe B5 (B5 Spring washer)
(27 ) N 014 130 1 Linsenschraube AM5x11 (Fillister-head screw)
(28 ) N 012 432 1 Sicherungsscheibe 2,3 (2.3mm lock washer - looks like an E clip)
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 1:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Engine Cooling and Cabin Heating System Tutorial Reply with quote

What miracles are required to get a hose on the neck DOWN in the A-Pillar ? One of the diagrams (THANKS) implies that there are two different diameters between the "bottom" and the bottom of the "Y". My recently purchased 73 has nothing "down there". Thanks to all for this complete discussion, as the "books" are lacking in what is really going on, and what so many of the parts actually look like. Lou in Aridzona.
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Tim Donahoe
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2015 12:56 am    Post subject: Re: Engine Cooling and Cabin Heating System Tutorial Reply with quote

Pull back your carpet a little at bottom of the door pillar and see if you have a 2x2 inch square hole. It's in my 1974 Super. You can attach the hose by going through this hole. If you have one, you have another on the opposite side.

Tim
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