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Engine Cooling and Cabin Heating System Tutorial
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kangaboy
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just got to intstall my heater boxes yeterday and ran into a problem. i dont have the "little dealies" that connect the heater box to the rear apron tin (the ones that are on the stock muffler; i now have a merged header with single quiet pack), then to the fan shroud. I also bought a rear apron tin with no pre-heater cutouts, which is ok cause i have dual carbs now. I was just going to cut a few holes in the new tin for the hoses to run from my fan shroud to my heater boxes, but how should i connect them? Can i just run the hoses from the fan shroud to the inlet on the heater box? or will the exhaust burn up my tube?
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bugninva
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kangaboy wrote:
Can i just run the hoses from the fan shroud to the inlet on the heater box? or will the exhaust burn up my tube?


yes and yes.... the aluminum preheat hoses available at the local chainstores do well...clamp them.. the header will eventually burn through them if you have them against the tube, but they last awhile..
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shortride
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is very good information.

Thanks!
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Pghpunkid
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im trying fix my heat and had a few questions. Where does the heat actually come in the car? My car is missing a lot in the back seat area and am trying to get heat working before winter kicks in fully. I see the tube right behind the driver seat but is that a tube that is supposed to connect to something in the back?
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EZ Gruv
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I came into the late Beetle forum looking specifically for a good description of the heating system.
Boy, did I find it!
Amazing write-up that will definitely help me this Saturday!
Thanks very much!
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Paul Windisch
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pghpunkid wrote:
Im trying fix my heat and had a few questions. Where does the heat actually come in the car? My car is missing a lot in the back seat area and am trying to get heat working before winter kicks in fully. I see the tube right behind the driver seat but is that a tube that is supposed to connect to something in the back?


OK, the heater channel comes in the REAR firewall under the back seat bottom. Then, there is a "Y" shaped metal junction that is full of little holes. That "Y" connects the channel from the rear, then one leg of the "Y" goes to the heater channel to the front of the car, and the other leg goes to the rear heater outlet, in the kick panel under the rear seat bottom at the FRONT of the rear seat. The "Y" is full of holes to reduce noise and is supposed to be wrapped with an insulating blanket.
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Paul Windisch
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul Windisch wrote:
Pghpunkid wrote:
Im trying fix my heat and had a few questions. Where does the heat actually come in the car? My car is missing a lot in the back seat area and am trying to get heat working before winter kicks in fully. I see the tube right behind the driver seat but is that a tube that is supposed to connect to something in the back?


OK, the heater channel comes in the REAR firewall under the back seat bottom. Then, there is a "Y" shaped metal junction that is full of little holes. That "Y" connects the channel from the rear, then one leg of the "Y" goes to the heater channel to the front of the car, and the other leg goes to the rear heater outlet, in the kick panel under the rear seat bottom at the FRONT of the rear seat. The "Y" is full of holes to reduce noise and is supposed to be wrapped with an insulating blanket.


Here is a pic of the "Y"'s. They are wrapped in the foil, so it is hard to distinguish their shape. Note the outlet hole for the rear in the kick panel, just above of the pliers.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Here is a pic with the insulating blanket removed, you can see it in the lower right corner of the pic, the black metal tube with all the little holes in it:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
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Pghpunkid
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alright! That helps a lot. I have no heating components in the back off the heater boxes so once i get the heat controlling parts ill go from there. Thanks!
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sweet
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My car kicks out enough heat to make me happy despite having rotten heater channels, drafty door seals, and the hoses under my hood disconnected.

I'm debating on modifying the "Y's" under my back seat to eliminate the runs through the heater channels. That way I'll be forcing all the hot air to enter from under the seat.
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Borgdog
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sweet wrote:
My car kicks out enough heat to make me happy despite having rotten heater channels, drafty door seals, and the hoses under my hood disconnected.

I'm debating on modifying the "Y's" under my back seat to eliminate the runs through the heater channels. That way I'll be forcing all the hot air to enter from under the seat.


I guess that depends on whether you want to have any defrost or not. Living in the humid wet pacific northwest coast I need all the defogging ability I can get.
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Paul Windisch
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, until he takes the body off to replace the rotted heater channels, he's not going to have defrost anyway, so as a temporary measure, yes, run some tubing to keep yourself warm. Just bring a towel with you so you can wipe off the fog from the inside of the windshield.
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Paul Windisch
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

By the way, as a little follow up, I have been cruising fairly comfortably with a drafty dashboard, and I just figured out that my heat exchangers are still the OE VWoM exchangers that DO NOT have the heat sink fins in them, just a tube inside the box, so to be comfortable with these exchangers and a body that is not quite sealed right says a lot about the heater. So far, it's gotten down to about 25 degrees ambient temp, and I'm warm enough. Once the body is sealed and I get some German H/E, I will probably have to turn the heat off after a short distance. Very Happy
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sweet
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahhh screw the defrost, thus far wiping it with a rag hasn't killed me and its been disconnected since I bought it. I'm on the west side of PA and the windshield has rarely fogged up.

Even with the rot in the channels there's still warm enough air coming out to keep my left leg warm. I just don't like the idea that the hot air in the channels is probably picking up cold air on its way through.

But like Paul said, I can't properly fix that until I pull my body off and considering this topic is about heat for the winter that won't be happening for a few more months.

Who knows, maybe it will work better. I'll post before and after results here if anyone else is curious how it works out.

Excellent write up Paul.
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hotrodgary
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent write up!!!
It gave me an much better understanding of it!!

Only thing that wasn't discussed is how to check/test your thermostat? If its off the engine can you just check it with heat and see if it moves?
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Paul Windisch
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I did to check mine: Install the thermostat in the bracket off the car, this way when it expands, it will not over-expand and damage the bellows. The thermostat should be marked with a temperature, it is in Celsius (usually 65-70* C, which converts to 149-158* F). This means it should expand within this temp range. Get a meat thermometer, put a pot of water on the stove and submerse the thermostat (mounted in the bracket) in the water and turn the heat on. Then monitor the temp with the thermometer, and the bellows should expand somewhere between 149 and 158*. When you are done, just turn the heat off and let the water return to ambient temp, or close to it, before removing the thermostat, so it doesn't get cold shocked. If your thermostat is expanded when it is cold (like when the engine hasn't been run for a few hours), then it is no good.

EDIT: I suppose you could check it with a heat gun on the car, just to see if it moves, but it would be somewhat difficult to monitor the temp at which it opens. A hair dryer will generally NOT get hot enough to expand the bellows.
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EZ Gruv
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got my levers in the mail and will install them tomorrow.

Does this orientation look correct?

Left and right:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Left

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Right

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
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Paul Windisch
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like that's correct. Very Happy
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rlutterb
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have often used an extra fan under the rear seat to give the system a boost..........available at JC Whitney (I know, we all hate them) but a bit pricy. I have an extra I just bought at a swap meet for 20 bucks.
Here my set up......
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
I ran the switch to an open spot on the dash and used an extra defroster switch to power it. That extra boost is nice.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, I'm still trying to figure out the whole heater system. I have a 71 Std with an oil bath filter and an afterstock Bug Pack exhuast. My biggest question is what happens to the hoses once they exit the engine bay...do the heater boxes come through the holes in the bay? Does anyone have any wide shot pics underneath the car so I can see how it is all mapped out.

This forum has been very helpful.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
So, I'm still trying to figure out the whole heater system. I have a 71 Std with an oil bath filter and an afterstock Bug Pack exhuast. My biggest question is what happens to the hoses once they exit the engine bay...do the heater boxes come through the holes in the bay? Does anyone have any wide shot pics underneath the car so I can see how it is all mapped out.


Well....nevermind...found a good video on Youtube...haha
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