74 Vw thing Wheel Studs

[socalthing]

What size are vw thing wheel studs supposed to be, For some reason mine are 12 mm 5 lug. Had steel 5 wide rims on it and I purchased empi wide five for it but the 14 mm studs I ordered are to big for the drum. What drums would have been used if these were changed out? Also, I need to change brake pads. Is the drum going to make a difference due to brake drum size for brake pads? Thanks in advance,

[yellow73kubel]

The drums should be drilled out with a 37/64in drill bit (9/16in works if you can't find the 37/64) and the studs pressed in. The 14mm studs are correct.

A little note on pressing in the studs... We just did this, the rear drums used were German-made 181 drums. This metal is HARD. It took 2 hours to drill all ten holes (fried the drill press motor ), and 7 tons of pressure to push the studs in. On the flip side, the fronts were VW-made, but definitely not German. This metal cut very smoothly and the studs were tapped in with a hammer. I'd imagine your EMPI drums are similar. If so, definitely use the 9/16in (36/64) drill bit, and try to avoid filing or boring out the holes any.

And.. A useful link for studding the drums: http://www.humeston.org/vwthing3/?page_id=120.

[Ferretkona]

My wheel shop buddy used thread in studs for ours.
_________________
74 181 Thing
2008 Ford Sport Trac V8 4x4
2008 Ford Escape V6

[Towel Rail]

I think by "studs" the OP means the wheel lugs. The 14mm lugs were for the later 4-lug cars. If you go by year, places like Mid America will sell you the wrong lugs for a Thing. Ask me how I found that one out.

Hope this helps.
- Scott
_________________
1974 Thing -- under the knife
1967 Beetle -- spring/summer/fall driver
1996 Subaru OBW (EJ22, 5-speed, AWD) -- winter car, 3-seasons "don't feel like biking today" car

049 > 070 > 053 > 009

[Chris Vellat]

[wolfywho]

[uberautowerks]

[Towel Rail]

Ah, thanks.
_________________
1974 Thing -- under the knife
1967 Beetle -- spring/summer/fall driver
1996 Subaru OBW (EJ22, 5-speed, AWD) -- winter car, 3-seasons "don't feel like biking today" car

049 > 070 > 053 > 009

[socalthing]

The drums are 5 hole. 12 mm . 14 mm should be the correct ones right? The wheels are empi. Not the drums. http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C32-E252B

[j5josher]

[yellow73kubel]

[socalthing]

Thanks guys, I need to order brake pads at the same time. Appreciate the help and the link.!!!

[kubelmann]

As a minor point of correct automotive terminology:

Drum brake have shoes that press against the drums acting on a force provided by the wheel cylinder.

While disc brake have pads that press against the rotors acting on a force provided by the caliper.

Lug bolts thread directly into drums or rotors holdin the wheels in place.
Wheel studs are permanently attached through the brake drums or rotors and then they pass through the wheels and the studs are tightened to the wheels using Lug nuts

[socalthing]

Tomatoe Tomato , I got it. thanks.

[dsmetanick]

Please advise where can I get thread in 14 mm wheel studs that have the smallest portion of unthreaded middle section. All the studs that I see have a large unthreaded section between the threads that go into the break drum and the lug nut side. My lug nuts are normal cone (acorn) shaped and the common white steel 5 spoke sand rail wheel cannot be tightened fully with this large unthreaded section. When properly tightened the lug nut will nest in the wheel hole and come with in 1 thread width of touching the break drum. The unthreaded portion of the wheel stud is 3-4 thread widths. I tried allen wrenching the studs in the break drum deeper but the soft brazilian threads were destroyed. So I welded them in and two broke off with the air wrench. I'm never going to use the air wrench again. I'm starting over again with German drums if I can find them. So far I only found Italian in stock - are they made of harder steel like German? If I cannot find thread in type with little or no unthreaded middle section I think I will have to use 14 mm lug bolts. I prefer not to wear out the break drum threads, however, and I have no experience using washers to space out the unthreaded section. As info I cannot use press in studs since they will hit the oversized 22mm brake cylinder in my rear (swing) axle. 19 mm is the largest size brake cylinder that can work with press in studs and I enjoy the additional breaking power as is. Appreciate any advice.

[uberautowerks]

Um....
First...
"Five Spoke Sand rail Rims" typically require "Ball" seat lugs or studs NOT "Cone" style.

Second...
Just use the factory lug bolts. You aren't going to wear out the drums.
_________________
--- The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair.
- Douglas Adams -
---
'74 Thing (White)
'71 Single cab (White too)
'70 Weekender (White three)
'05 Evolution VIII (White also!!!)
'68 F-250 (White over black)

[dsmetanick]

Thanks for responding uberautowerks. I would appreciate anything else from you or others.

You described it best as "Ball" seat lugs. My rail has ball or acorn'ish (not cone).

Yesterday I was in BAP and found a stud that might work (empi p/n 9515). It has an unthreaded portion of only .135" (much better than the .25" from the average stud - this equates to 2-3 threads more on the same 1.5" stud). It will be close and the risk is limited to destroying 1 of the 6 threads in the drum (instead of 3-4) to allow the wheel to snug fully.

I have destroyed at least 15 lug bolt thread holes over the past 30 years of sand railling from either too tight or too loose (and the wheel coming loose tears up the threads). You cannot fully lay into a 50 year old drum and not strip the threads. Most recently I stripped those 5 holes with the studs that I allen wrenched in past the threaded portion in that soft Brazilian cast iron. This drum was brand new - from dansperformanceautoparts.

I read an article on the Thing page linked from this website stating that German steel is a must for rear axle because it it much harder (probably tempered steel drums). If the manufacturer does not take the extra step to re-heat up the finished product to cherry red then dunk it in water to lock in the maximum hardness, the threads will be too soft.

I exhausted my search and can only find Italy or China (Centric brand name distributed by BAP) made break drums. I have no idea and cannot find any experts on the comparative quality of the hardness (quality) of these threads.