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tstracy39
Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2008
Posts: 3294
Location: Seattle, WA
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 Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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| djkeev wrote: |
| tstracy39 wrote: |
These cars were designed to last no longer than ten years, after which they'd be worn out and in need of being replaced by a shiny new Volkswagen. I don't think any engineer would deliberately design a consumer product to last a lifetime, if they want to keep cashing paychecks. |
While I agree with the not lasting forever thing, I must ask where you get your 10 year life span comment from. Is there a paper you know of, an internal memo if you will, that indicates this year span to be true? |
It's common knowledge that the average car is scrapped after 10 years or less. It would be a waste of resources to make any consumer grade vehicle with a full service life lasting any longer. In regards to the intricate moisture trapping heater channel structure, I'm sure the engineers almost exclusively had mass-production potential and structural rigidity in mind when they designed it, with the little drain holes added as an afterthought for a small amount of long term corrosion resistance. Fire and delivery trucks are designed to last longer, and that's why they're made out of aluminum.
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gregmporter
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Joined: July 21, 2008
Posts: 531
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 5:22 am Post subject: |
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I wanted to comment on the section drawing... The one thing I would suggest is to move the flat bar at the top to the inside just a bit. That will give you a place to tuck in the carpet edge. I think that's why they made the OGs that way.
As an architect, I really like the design of these. I'm guessing you'll have about $30 worth of steel in each side? You'll have 50x the strength of OG that's for sure!
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You Tube Channel w/vids of the car's progress
http://www.youtube.com/user/gregmporter
1974 Karmann Ghia Cabriolet
1964 356C Coupe (in progress) |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32592
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 7:21 am Post subject: |
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| gregmporter wrote: |
I wanted to comment on the section drawing... The one thing I would suggest is to move the flat bar at the top to the inside just a bit. That will give you a place to tuck in the carpet edge. I think that's why they made the OGs that way.
As an architect, I really like the design of these. I'm guessing you'll have about $30 worth of steel in each side? You'll have 50x the strength of OG that's for sure! |
Good suggestion, I noticed that as I was taking photos as well. It is hard to get the exact placement working off of such a rotted pattern!
I'll look at my Coupe closer and see if I can get better location dimensions. It will also help me once the rocker panel arrives, which my UPS tracking says is in Parsippany this AM and out for delivery! Fast service!
I haven't calculated increased strength (and lack the skills to do so) but am sure it is way more than needed for a Convertible. I really want the longevity of this modification of the Heater Channels and the price tag as well.
I calculate that the steel to replace the stock heater channels to be in the area of 90 pounds. I need to see how much the stock heater channel and convertible reinforcement weighs to see how much weight I'm adding, not that I really care all that much.
| danielsan wrote: |
If you do this I will curious to know if it changes the way the car handles -- I've always felt that part of the unique feel of the ghia convertible comes from the way it stretches while driving.
Could be my imagination but it feels like the car leans into curves -- which is not feeling I get while driving a bug. |
I am not an auto engineer or experienced in racing but what I have read about making a car handle better is to stiffen the frame up. Tie the top of the front struts together, add a torsion bar tying the front wheels to the rear to prevent twist, anti sway bars, etc. This all comes at a cost of weight gain.
In my La La land of inexperience I tend to think that a stiffer body should actually enhance handling?
I can't see the rockers twisting as a stock unit. The spot welds would stress and pop apart along with other metal fatigue issues. I do believe that they designed cost effective, easy to produce, light weight strength into the rocker heater channel system.
If your rockers are twisting, I'd guess they are also rotten?
Thanks for the feedback guys! I'll keep you posted as I progress and make this system a reality. Of course I'll post exact dimension and fastening points to help those behind me who may wish to do a similar "upgrade". (insert angry mob who are against "ruining" a good Ghia with pitchforks here.)
Dave
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gregmporter
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Joined: July 21, 2008
Posts: 531
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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| djkeev wrote: |
It is hard to get the exact placement working off of such a rotted pattern!
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You are 100% right. Keep the doors on the car and when the skins arive, you'll want to fit up the rockers (inside and out) to get your gaps correct. It will be a huge PITA but worth the trouble. Maybe someone can trace the profile of a rocker they've cut out for you. That tracing could hold most of the answers!!!
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You Tube Channel w/vids of the car's progress
http://www.youtube.com/user/gregmporter
1974 Karmann Ghia Cabriolet
1964 356C Coupe (in progress) |
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72Ghia
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Joined: November 11, 2007
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Location: Baltimore Maryland
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Bones 53
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Joined: February 19, 2005
Posts: 661
Location: Reno NV
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| Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 7:52 am Post subject: |
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| If you do this I will curious to know if it changes the way the car handles -- |
The 2x3 channels really stiffen the car - there is no "twisting" sensation at all. The wider tires and wheels along with appropriate shocks and sway bars help too. |
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Murdlem
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Joined: February 06, 2004
Posts: 512
Location: Port Angeles, Washington
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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OK, so how did it go? I am in the same position, needing to replace completely rusted out vert rockers, and not haveing the $$$$ to buy all of the replacement panels.
This whole thread is exactly what I had envisioned doing myself.
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Eric Meldrum
68 Ghia
Check out my blog. https://vwlifenet.wordpress.com/ |
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Greezy Joe
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Joined: April 12, 2010
Posts: 1534
Location: Crawfordville, Fl
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:47 am Post subject: |
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| Bones 53 wrote: |
| Quote: |
| If you do this I will curious to know if it changes the way the car handles -- |
The 2x3 channels really stiffen the car - there is no "twisting" sensation at all. The wider tires and wheels along with appropriate shocks and sway bars help too. |
I used 2X3 channel to build my floor pan on the Ghia, made it stiff with no flex.
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Current:74 Ghia Coupe w/ 2276
71 Ghia Vert w/ 1835
07 GMC Truck
12 Jeep Wrangler
73 Harley FLH 93 cid
89 Harley 883 Sportster (1200)
Owned before: 58, 69 Ghia Coupes, 64 Canvas Sunroof, 68, 72, 73, & 74 Bugs, 63 Single Cab, 65 Bus, 66 & 70 Camper
" Duct tape can't fix stupid, but it'll muffle the sound". |
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Murdlem
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Joined: February 06, 2004
Posts: 512
Location: Port Angeles, Washington
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Greezy Joe wrote: |
| Bones 53 wrote: |
| Quote: |
| If you do this I will curious to know if it changes the way the car handles -- |
The 2x3 channels really stiffen the car - there is no "twisting" sensation at all. The wider tires and wheels along with appropriate shocks and sway bars help too. |
I used 2X3 channel to build my floor pan on the Ghia, made it stiff with no flex. |
I assume that this is a good thing??
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Eric Meldrum
68 Ghia
Check out my blog. https://vwlifenet.wordpress.com/ |
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69satellite
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Joined: January 14, 2008
Posts: 208
Location: Kerrville, TX
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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| anymore pics of the 2x3 tubing installed? I'm goin go this route when I get around to doing mine |
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cseay1
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Joined: March 22, 2012
Posts: 1341
Location: Elkwood VA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:41 am Post subject: |
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Yes lot's of pics please!
I too am mulling the 2x2 or 2x3 rocker/heater channel route.
It's nice for someone else to be the guinea pig! |
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cseay1
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Joined: March 22, 2012
Posts: 1341
Location: Elkwood VA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:42 am Post subject: |
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| Murdlem wrote: |
| Greezy Joe wrote: |
| Bones 53 wrote: |
| Quote: |
| If you do this I will curious to know if it changes the way the car handles -- |
The 2x3 channels really stiffen the car - there is no "twisting" sensation at all. The wider tires and wheels along with appropriate shocks and sway bars help too. |
I used 2X3 channel to build my floor pan on the Ghia, made it stiff with no flex. |
I assume that this is a good thing?? |
... so you can jack up one corner of the car and get three wheels off the ground? |
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Murdlem
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Joined: February 06, 2004
Posts: 512
Location: Port Angeles, Washington
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:17 am Post subject: |
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I replaced the drivers side channel with 2x3 when the body was off the pan. I am very happy with the results, and especially at the savings. The tubing cost me less than $50.
Here is the only photo I have. An after photo, before the body was replaced on the pan. Mine is a convertible which I will not be driving in wet/cold weather. I used a piece of angle iron to meet up with the outer rocker, but left the bottom unwelded. If any moisture gets in there, it will just run right out.
Pan and body went together nice.
The pan bolts you see there are just to hold the metal "plate" in place. I had a 2" wide piece of flat steel with nuts welded to it slid down into the channel before I welded it all up. The channel has holes drilled in the corresponding locations. This way, when attached to the pan, the bolts go through the pan, through the channel, and are held in place by the 2" wide piece of flat steel when the bolts are all tightened up.
here are the body and pan back together
here is a current picture.
with the carpet installed, you would not know that the rocker is not stock.
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Eric Meldrum
68 Ghia
Check out my blog. https://vwlifenet.wordpress.com/ |
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32592
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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addicted_2_vws
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Joined: September 22, 2013
Posts: 21
Location: Bay City Mi
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| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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I know this post has not had any posts in awhile but, I was
Thinking of using square tubing as heater channels. One thing I'm not understanding is why not cut the entire channel out a completely and replace it with new square tubing? It seems some people want to hold on to the out part. If the running boards cover them up is there another reason for keeping it? |
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team bogus
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Joined: December 26, 2013
Posts: 41
Location: Calgary, Alberta
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| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 10:13 am Post subject: |
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Ok, back to this thread again.
I read a lot of reference to using 2"x3" bar. I've got two 72" sections of 1.5" x 3" bar. Is this a suitable size to use as new heater channels?
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1967 Karmann Ghia |
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c21darrel
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Cwinch75
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Joined: January 29, 2018
Posts: 3
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:24 am Post subject: Re: Heater Channels, Alternate construction |
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I just completed a heater channel build with 2x3x0.25 in the driver aide of my 72 Karmann Ghia convertible. Check out my small video on YouTube. Thanks
https://youtu.be/GKbUfXV-zno
Little Scarlett Reborn. 72 VWKG. |
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Evil_Fiz
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Joined: May 06, 2011
Posts: 1045
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:40 am Post subject: Re: Heater Channels, Alternate construction |
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Excellent work. I guess you wont need door opening braces with that skyscraper grade construction effort 
It looks like the convertible reinforcement rail is reusable shape.
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Emil
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See my build on TheSamba at:
The K_R_A_K_E_N_N : a 70 Ghia Convertible reinterpreted |
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djkeev
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