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Sheet Metal Thickness & Gauge, Quality of Repair Panels
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:52 pm    Post subject: Sheet Metal Thickness & Gauge, Quality of Repair Panels Reply with quote

I hope this becomes an information spot in process. Measure your car, measure your panels, factory and replacement. Add it to this list, tell us where you got it from, who is the manufacturer, what Nation was it manufactured in and if you installed it, how did it fit, also how did it weld??
(Different metals with different carbon content weld differently.)


Many wonder what thickness is THAT metal?? What is the original size, what is the replacement panel size? What thickness do I need to purchase to manufacture a panel or a patch??

This is information you NEED when doing repairs.

Working on my 69 and 70 Ghia I thought that it may be helpful to measure things and let others know what metal is used where on these cars.

Using my Starrett sheet metal gauge I made some measurements to get the thicknesses used on the Chassis.
Note, the thinner the metal, the HIGHER the number.
Also note that I've wire brushed off the paint and rust scale where possible, also some of these metals have surface rust and the thicknesses may be skewed just a tad as a result. These are the closest numbers I can come up with using the "go, no go" method with the gauge.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


NOTE: This list is for the Type I Ghia but add your information on other models and I'll make a similar list for each type of VW people submit info on.
----------------
Floor Pan,
Factory Pan
19 Gauge
.0437

Rust Repair Panel ( 1/4 Panel, Front Left)
Unknown Vendor, Unknown Nation of Origin, Manufactured by Klokkerholm
21 Gauge
.0343

--------------
Seat Rails
Factory
16 Gauge
.0625

------------------
Frame Head Batwing
Factory
14 Gauge
.078

---------------------
Frame Head at Oval cover plate opening
Factory
13 Gauge
.0937

---------------------
Tunnel at Pedal Opening (single thickness, it is doubled at this spot)(used a micrometer, gauge doesn't fit)
13 Gauge
.0937

-------------------
Front Firewall Support bracket at Master Cylinder Hole (Used a micrometer, gauge doesn't fit)
Factory
13 Gauge
.0937

-----------------------
Jack receptacle
12 Gauge
.109

-----------------------
Rocker Panel, below Door
Factory
19 Gauge
.0437

Replacement Rust Panel, M&T Manufacturing, Made in Denmark by JP Group, Drilled drain holes
19 Gauge
.0437

Replacement Rust Panel, Unknown, was on car when I purchased it
19 Gauge
.0437

------------------------
Inner Heater Channel (with nuts for floor pan)
Factory
19 Gauge
.0437

-----------------------
Outer Heater Channel
Factory
19 Gauge
.0437

------------------------
Convertible Reinforcement
Factory (mine is quite rusted, this was taken at the upper most section welded to the original rocker where rust was minimal)
19 Gauge
.0437

----------------------------
Front Fender Just in front of the windshield pillar where the splash panel for the A pillar meets the fender.
Factory metal, no rust, paint scraped off
20 Gauge
.0375

--------------------------------
Front Fender Top of wheel opening
Factory metal, no rust
20 Gauge
.0375

--------------------------------
Front Inner Fender Panel (fresh air box is mounted to it)
Factory Metal, Rusty at point of measurement so may be inaccurate, I suspect that it is closer to the 20 Gauge fender dimension where it is solid.
21 Gauge
.0343

------------------------------
Nose Panel At Nostril opening
Factory metal
20 Gauge
.0375

---------------------------------
Fresh Air Nostril Air Box (teardrop shaped)
Factory
24 Gauge
.025

------------------------------
Fresh Air Box Square portion in Wheel Well
Factory
24 Gauge
.025

------------------------------
Fresh air duct round portion in wheel well towards driver
24 gauge
.025

-----------------------------
Front Fender, Lower Rear Outer Section (just in front of door and Rocker panel)
Factory,
19 Gauge
.0437

Rust Replacement Panel.
From M&T Manufacturing Made in Denmark by JP Group, NO drain holes
19 Gauge
.0437

-----------------------
Rear Fender, Front Lower Outer Section (part with Torsion bar access cover, behind door and Rocker Panel)
Factory, Haven't measured it yet

Rust Replacement Panel
From M&T Manufacturing, Made in China Shocked Has PRESSED IN Drains
19 Gauge
.0437

-------------------------
Rear Fender, Lower Rear Section (Behind Wheel and below side bumper blade)
Factory, I don't have one to measure, it is totally rusted away!!

Rust Replacement Panel
From M&T Manufacturing, Made in China Shocked
19 gauge
.0437

-----------------------
Rear Body Panel (Below Tail light, joins with rear splash, has corner for engine lid seal stamped in. Joins to Rear Fender Lower Rear Section.)
Factory Panel, I haven't yet measured it

Rust Repair Panel
KPGR No Nation of Origin Sticker on it
19 Gauge
.0437

-----------------------
Rear Fender, Inner Rear (next to engine, has bumper mount stamping)
Factory Panel, I haven't yet measured it

Rust Repair Panel
KPGR Nation of Origin, China Shocked
19 Gauge
.0437

----------------------------
"A" Pillar Door hinge pillar
Factory metal
20 Gauge
.0375

------------------------

Dave
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Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473

Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert


Last edited by djkeev on Fri Nov 26, 2010 12:08 pm; edited 12 times in total
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buguy
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thats good info!
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Poorboyz
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where did you get that handy little tool at? I just got some floor pans and was curious of the metal thickness.
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Poorboyz wrote:
Where did you get that handy little tool at? I just got some floor pans and was curious of the metal thickness.


Any good commercial tool store should have them.

Dave
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473

Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

Beetle
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Poorboyz
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just lost my curiosity after seeing that they cost $36 at Sears...lol
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buguy
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, really any dial or digital calipers would do the same job. There are plenty of decimal to thickness gauge calculators on the net.
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Chubber
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about some exterior metal? Door skin (Measure at handle hole), fender (measure at turn signal hole), etc?

I have tried to measure it with a micrometer, both caliper and beam but always get wildly differing readings. Probably because if differences in paint films and slight curves to the metal. Sanding off the paint can sand off a gauge's worth of metal sometimes.
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Mr. Unpopular
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Poorboyz wrote:
I just lost my curiosity after seeing that they cost $36 at Sears...lol


I know right! You can get a digital caliper for $6 at Harbor Freight, yet a stupid piece of stainless cut with a laser is $36?

I know the HF caliper is crappy quality, but seriously. All kinds of moving parts and electronics for 6 TIMES THE PRICE!
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bugninva
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

you pay for precision... and Starrett is a quality company for precision measuring...
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I got one at Eastwood for $20 bucks. Nice to have for setting-up your welder for a job. I look at it like any other good tool.
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

beetlenut1 wrote:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I got one at Eastwood for $20 bucks. Nice to have for setting-up your welder for a job. I look at it like any other good tool.


Thank You!!! Dancing Applause

I was beginning to feel attacked for trying to HELP people!!! Rolling Eyes

Dave
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Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473

Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert
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Mr. Unpopular
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Damn you have some thin skin! Did you price the tool? Then don't be so defensive. It was just an observation.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Florida_Buggy wrote:
Damn you have some thin skin! Did you price the tool? Then don't be so defensive. It was just an observation.


Ahhh!!!! I'm only kidding, I so got over having thin skin after my first month playing in this neighborhood!!!

Price it? I purchased it!!! I needed a quality tool to determine various metal thickness in my work.

I generally try to purchase quality when I can.

Dave
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Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473

Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert
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zcruisers
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those gauge readers are cool. My new welder came with one. It helps take the guess work out of setting the machine.

Cool
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zcruisers wrote:
Those gauge readers are cool. My new welder came with one. It helps take the guess work out of setting the machine.

Cool


Yep, many don't understand tools. They don't appreciate the quality, the use of, or the subtle differences in.

I've got a drawer of hammers. All different yet they each have a purpose. I've had people look at my hammers in disbelief wondering why in the world would I have 20 different hammers?!?!
People fail to realize that all of these different heads, different weights, different handle length, different handle material, different sizes of the "same", different metals, different rubbers, different plastics.....pant pant pant Many differences, all with a specific use and purpose. AND.... When I go to a tool store, I look at Hammers that intrigue me!!!
Now, shall we get into screwdrivers or wrenches??? How about sockets with 6 points, 8 points, 12 points, torx, hex, male, female.........again, pant pant pant............each with a purpose and a use.

Dave
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Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473

Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just got some new rust repair panels in.
I measured them and entered them into the list on the first post. I also noted where I got them from, who made them and where they were made.
I hope to add how they fit after I install them.

Please add your experiences and measurements to this list.

Dave
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Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473

Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

djkeev wrote:
I just got some new rust repair panels in.
I measured them and entered them into the list on the first post. I also noted where I got them from, who made them and where they were made.
I hope to add how they fit after I install them.

Please add your experiences and measurements to this list.

Dave


Replacement Rust Panel, M&T Manufacturing, Made in Denmark by JP Group, Drilled drain holes
19 Gauge
.0437

If this is the place in Rhode Island, I live less than a mile down the road from them! I've bought all my replacement panels from them.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

beetlenut1 wrote:


If this is the place in Rhode Island, I live less than a mile down the road from them! I've bought all my replacement panels from them.


Yes, this is the place, so far I like them, very quick service.

FYI I've added two more dimensions of metal for the Ghia on the first post.

Dave
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Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473

Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
"A" Pillar Door hinge pillar
Factory metal
20 Gauge
.0375


i sort of thought the factory would use a european measuring standard like 1mm, not 3/8". i measure mine at just under .040, which makes sense since 1mm is .0394, but then mine is a bus. are bugs a different english thickness?
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dansvans wrote:
Quote:
"A" Pillar Door hinge pillar
Factory metal
20 Gauge
.0375


i sort of thought the factory would use a european measuring standard like 1mm, not 3/8". i measure mine at just under .040, which makes sense since 1mm is .0394, but then mine is a bus. are bugs a different english thickness?


Probably true but I'm not in Europe, I wouldn't be able to locally purchase a 1mm piece of sheet metal for any amount of money. .001 is .001 no matter where it is measured. It is also very easy to convert thousands of an inch to mm.

Also note what I said in my initial post, I used the thickness gauge pictured, I used a "go, no go" method of sizing and reported the "go" size as the thickness.

1mm = 0.0394
0.1mm =.0039

inches X 25.4 = mm
mm / 25.4 = inches

also a handy to read chart, print it out!

http://mdmetric.com/tech/cvtcht.htm

Dave
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Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473

Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert
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