complete brake line replacement threads?

[Central Syncronizer]

After some searching I've read quite a bit of info on replacing the flex lines and adding bigger brake kits and so on but there doesn't seem to be a lot on replacing the steel lines.

I'm eventually going to do the whole system and am hoping that there might be some recommendations for good flaring tools and tubing benders etc or a good thread tutorial that I've missed.

someday I'll master the search function....

cheers

Jay
_________________
Ongoing restoration/maintenance of my syncro double cab (and soon Westy):

http://88syncrodoka.blogspot.com/

[motelvw]

Here's a good thread I bookmarked.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412116

[Central Syncronizer]

[vwmike333]

I've been doing some research of my own and come up with some info;

all hard lines are 4.7mm (3/16 inches) diameter
all tubing nuts are M10X1.0 threads
all tubing flaring is ISO bubble flare

ETKA shows the following parts info for LHD/ non- ABS,

1. Master cylinder to front tee 1850mm (72.8 inches)
2. Master cylinder to rear brake pressure reducer 2130mm (83.8 inches)
3. Front tee to left brake hose 140mm (5.5 inches)
4. Left front brake hose to left front caliper 350mm (13.8inches)
5. Front tee to right front brake hose 950mm (37.4 inches)
6. Right front brake hose to right front caliper 350mm(13.8inches)
7. Brake pressure reducer to rear tee 2900mm (114.2inches)
8. Rear tee to left rear brake hose 623mm (24.5inches)
9.Rear tee to right rear brake hose 285mm (11.2 inches)
10.Left rear brake hose to left rear wheel cylinder 550mm (21.6 inches)
11.Right rear brake hose to right rear wheel cyl. 550mm (21.6 inches)

Total length 3/16" line required 10678mm(420.4inches)
or 35 feet
(These measurements are from flare-to-flare (add 1 inch total when cutting each line to allow additional length for flaring each end of the tubing) (11 inches)
So, if you plan to buy enough to do the whole van, you will need to buy two 25-foot coils of brake line. Right now, Napa and Carquest have a sale on it so it's between $23 and $29 per coil. I can't recommend attempting to flare the poly-coated line, it's hard to hold and slips out of the tool while flaring. I bought the copper-nickel line for $29 on sale at Carquest. Napa doesn't sell the copper-nickel but does sell plain and poly-coated line coils. It bends easily and won't corrode for many years.
Napa does sell a professional ISO flaring tool for $96 with a lifetime warrantee.
Also, I'm now ordering 20 tubing nuts thru Fedhillusa.com for $1 apiece plus shipping. http://store.fedhillusa.com/m13.aspx
Vancafe and Bus Depot has the hoses for $13 front and $12 rear, plus shipping. They also have the line clips (6 needed?), hose clips (2 needed?) and retaining springs (6 needed) for $1.50 to $2.80 each Airhead parts and Cip1 has the brass brake tees for $6 each plus shipping.

Flexible brake hose specs;
1. Left/right front brake hoses M10X1.0 female/female 400mm (15.75 in)
2. Left/right rear brake hoses M10X1.0 female/female 160mm(6.3inches)

This should help fill the gaps in missing information for this job.

Mike B.

[purplepeopleeater]

Thanks for the info man!

[[email protected]]

I have recently done this and was going to buy the length of tubing but ended up buying pre-cut lengths at FLAPS, the Metric kind, a simple tube bending tool

My intial efforts were ugly, but by the end, the tubing looked mercedes quality..

great upper body excercise..

Sam
_________________
2001 eurovn weekender 207k fresh batteries

[vwmike333]

[rubbachicken]

[vwmike333]

The sale on the copper-nickel line at Carquest is until 2/28/2012.[/b]

[/quote]

do you know how much it was ?

i'm on my last piece, i like to keep spare on board,for just incase[/quote]


I paid $27.50, which is nearly half the normal price.

[vwmike333]

I ended up buying a Double Flaring tool kit from Harbor Freight after reading how to cheat and make a bubble flare with a double flare tool. It was only $19.99 at HF, and I also picked up the set of Tubing benders for .99. These are wire springs of various diameters that are slipped over the line (before flaring!) to bend it to the needed shape. The nice thing about them is that you can bend complex shapes easily while preventing tubing collapse from flattening out on the bends. After bending is done, just slip them off the tubing and slide the tubing nuts over each end, then make your bubble flares. According to many sources, the copper-nickel line bends like a dream, so, I'm looking forward to doing the lines.
An old mechanic told me his secret for matching the bends of a line. He said to duct tape the end of the old and new lines together, then bend the first bend to match. Then duct tape after the bend to hold them together. Now, bend the next angle to match, and duct tape them together after that bend, working like this till you're at the end of the line. I was able to use this method to do my 3/8" power steering high-pressure steel line that had rusted through on my '87 Westy. I was surprised at how well it worked on this particularly long and complex-shaped hardline. It went in like a stock part, which is NLA.
I plan to remove all of my old brake lines and make them up like this, so I have a "kit" of new lines and fittings, but if it's too hard to do it this way, I may just do one at a time. I could also make up a pre-made kit (or kits) to sell to others, but it may be hard to ship the longer lines without cutting or bending them in half for smaller packaging.

[Larry Davick]

That's a great tip!

The steel-copper lines from Poly Armour will easily bend by hand without kinking and they are nearly as corrosion resistant as stainless.
_________________
1981 Westy Automatic
Sleeping Beauty

[vwmike333]

[vweggie]

vwmike333. I'm going to be replacing the steel lines on my van soon, once the hardware arrives from Fedhill. Did you pre-bend all your lines before installing or snake them in bending as you install the line? It seems like it would be difficult to get some of the lines into place if they were pre-bent. I'm thinking of the passenger side front to the tee and the line from the master cylinder to the same tee.

Would it would be easier if I disconnected some of those coolant hoses?
_________________
1990 Multivan 2.1 AT

[morymob]

If in good shape i re-use the line nuts, keep extras, and if a dia fit problem a quick pass with correct drill will correct minor problem. Problem here is getting new nuts.

[danfromsyr]

FWIW
Both Advanced & pepboys in my area have new metric brake line nuts ina blister pack hanging by the brake fitting parts.. often behind the counter.
and they're farily reasonably priced..

[msinabottle]

Can you make the same double flare that is known as the Metric Bubble Flare with that Harbor Freight double-flare tool? I are new to this.

I'm thinking of Winston's fuel lines, and piggy-backing on the thought here. My thought is dampened, grommeted metal fuel lines, minimizing yet another Vanagon issue.

Best!
_________________
'Winston,' '84 1.9 WBX Westy
Vanagon Poet Laureate: "I have suffered in
many ways, but never, never, never in silence."

[James 93SLC]

[vweggie]

[James 93SLC]

[msinabottle]

The input and advice are most welcome. I figure if Chris/10centlife has gone to as much metal fuel line as he can in his engine compartments, it's a good precedent to follow, likewise, indeed, for the brake lines. It's a matter, I think, of getting the tool and having the courage to get going on the project.

Thank you!

Best!
_________________
'Winston,' '84 1.9 WBX Westy
Vanagon Poet Laureate: "I have suffered in
many ways, but never, never, never in silence."