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Bench bleed master cylinder
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BDSBSS23
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 10:35 am    Post subject: Bench bleed master cylinder Reply with quote

I was wondering since i installed the master cylinder in without bench bleeding it, the brakes used to be really good and for past two years it has been sitting and then i came back the brakes arent good anymore. The pedal would go all the way to the floor. I bled the brakes and fluids come out with no air in it. So can I take out the master cylinder i have now and bench bleed it or must buy a new one and bench bleed it?
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joemac
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The fact that the pedal went to the floor means the system either took on air, or the cups are shot, allowing fluid to get past them. Pull the boot on the pedal end of the MC back and look for evidence of brake juice. If it's apparent that the fluid has gotten past the cups, it's time for either a MC rebuild or a new one.
You may get lucky with a good bleed with fresh brake juice. Make sure the push rod isn't adjusted so it's too long, a common problem when someone has altered the length.
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BDSBSS23
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know that the fluid arent inside the boots thats for sure. Yeah about the air I need to make sure I adjusted the rod and make sure the brake pads are tight against the drum. Just my question is can I bench bleed the master cylinder I have now?
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Wa-hillbilly
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you dont have to remove it to bench bled it,unhook the brake lines and screw in some other lines you can stick in a container of brake fluid,then pump the brakes,be careful not to empty the reservoir after a few pumps
most important be careful not to reuse contaminated fluid.
good luck
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Gary
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you search on "Brake Bleed" in this forum you'll get more than enough hits to learn what to do, look for, and correct.

Other than that, bench bleeding is not necessary. You can gravity bleed the entire system. It takes longer, but you'll know the air is out of the system -- OR --

Build your own pressure system to power bleed the brake setup. Again, search and you'll get the answers you need.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The short answer is looking at Bentley you find zero references because the people that made the car thought it was not necessary... Why because the reservior is remote and sits at a higher level so gravity does this for you as you bleed the system... follow procedure farthest to nearest after taking slack out of show adjustment and you cannot fail

Look at the hard line going alongside drivers side near pedal cluster, this is most likely leak area ....
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BDSBSS23
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok thanks for all ur responses. I have new brake lines. So I doubt its leaking. So air in the system and out of adjustments.
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BDSBSS23
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok since vws love gravity to bleed the brakes, I am having problem still with brake pedal all the way to the floor. I tried to lock the drums up and bleed it. I am feeling there are still air in the system. I will try to tap on the MC for air to come off inside of the tube and also will one man bleeder like this work? Cause it works only with gravity.
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.eng...amp;itbs=1
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BDSBSS23
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did research and i should have in the first place so i will buy one. Thanks
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BDSBSS23
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well i used the one man bleeder it works well but my brakes are still spongy so i will go ahead and replace the master cylinder because i bought it from BFY obsolete two yrs ago. Maybe they gave me a bad quality one without letting me know....
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brett Ross wrote:
well i used the one man bleeder it works well but my brakes are still spongy so i will go ahead and replace the master cylinder because i bought it from BFY obsolete two yrs ago. Maybe they gave me a bad quality one without letting me know....


do you have a good manual for your car? you should get one...

Brett Ross wrote:
I need to make sure I adjusted the rod

the manual will tell you not to adjust the pushrod... for good reason, don't do that... if you already did, it can lead to poor brake performance...
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BDSBSS23
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah i do have a manual and the rod has been messed before so i tried to adjust it and leave it. Mad
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BDSBSS23
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Went to local auto part store and found this. It's remanufactured ones and i thought i was lucky to get this. What you guys think?
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
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bug1000000000
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your master looks as nice as my Brazilian from Airhead, and my "best quality" Brax (Danish) from CIP. A mechanic friend (who doesn't have proximity to actually do my work for me) dissembled the new Brax (its rear circuit produced little pressure and fluid exited at the boot). He showed me (with some eye-straining) how the rear cup was not perfectly round. I've re-installed the Brazilian, tried now with the "hanging cup" self bleeder (having already purchased Speed Bleeders and the Motive Power Bleeder (determined not to keep asking my wife to pump the pedal)), to no avail.

Am done for the winter.

Will follow your progress with interest.

Joe
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BDSBSS23
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i decided to take that back and buy a NOS master cylinder because i prefer new than rebuilt for whatsoever the reason happened before but thanks for the comment.
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Zundfolge1432
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bugninva wrote:
the manual will tell you not to adjust the pushrod... for good reason, don't do that... if you already did, it can lead to poor brake performance...



As you are well aware the above statement taken from Bentley manual assumes you are working on an unaltered car and you are using ATE components and the pedal stop is in the factory set position....

In the real world you've got a 30,40 maybe more year old car that may have had pans replaced. pedal stop has been altered, pedal cluster may have been swapped from another car, cheap aftermarket master cylinder has been installed how many times in those last 40+ years and who can say if the pushrod has been altered already from factory setting????

For these reasons you can throw the Bentley manual out the window because you are going to have to set the freeplay yourself .... Without getting too detailed just make sure you have some slack as too tight will make brakes drag and in the extreme damage the piston inside the cylinder..

However too much clearance will just about guarranty you cant get all the air out because you never get a full travel on that piston inside the cylinder ..I am sorry to be the bearer of this bad news but because cars have been altered over the years you must check this and do not assume the push rod setting is correct... I like the Bentley manual but this is one area that is now obsolete because of previous busy hands and cheap parts..Check Bentley it gives that minmum free play setting, this and common sense will result in a successful brake job you can be proud of
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bugninva
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with you on everything you said... However someone without experience should not muck with the pushrod in my opinion... then again, once they get it all out of whack, it's easy to pick up a car cheap... Laughing

a Haynes manual I bought as a teenager, had a good diagram and what the pedal stroke needed to be as well as the measurement for the rod... that was the old publication(with purple cover) and I loaned that out years ago and it never came back.... I bought a baja bug once that the owner messed with the pushrod... they went from locked wheels to no brakes and messed with it for a year... finally I bought it for 50 bucks and fixed it in ten minutes.... I measured the distance that the master cylinder took for full stroke, then backed off a bit for pedal flex, and used this measurement to set the pedal travel, then adjusted the rod for clearance... piece of cake...
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just want to finish this thread.... I took it to a mechanic to check my engine and he fixed my brakes without asking and it was just out of adjustment with the shoes so just needs to be bled thats all. Overall my brakes stop really good and pedal is no more spongy. I learned my lesson.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always adjust the brakes before bleeding. If there was any moisture in the brake system while it sat for two years, the bores in the master cylinder and wheel cylinders may be pitted from rust in which case they should be replaced. Are the front brakes disc or drum? Moisture messes up the caliper bores also.
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BDSBSS23
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All four are drums
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