Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Splitting the case pros and cons. Type 4
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Forum Index -> Bay Window Bus Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
al.hurst
Samba Member


Joined: February 13, 2010
Posts: 201
Location: Atlanta
al.hurst is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 2:11 pm    Post subject: Splitting the case pros and cons. Type 4 Reply with quote

I have my 1800cc engine torn down and am getting rebuilt heads, new P/C's, new gaskets, ect. I am wondering if splitting the case is something I should do?

What are the pros and cons and what do I need to look for when doing so? New bearings?

Thanks Alex
_________________
Dont ever pick your nose... It usually leads to RUST!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Wildthings
Samba Member


Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 24844

Wildthings is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What do your cam and lifters look like? If you don't know what you are looking at post pictures.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
busdaddy
Samba Member


Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 28358
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, Land of the giant flying moose!
busdaddy is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suppose you didn't have an oil pressure gauge so you wouldn't know what pressures it was running before you took it apart eh? Any idea on the mileage on it? How clean is it inside (regular oil changes)?, any low knocking at idle when it was warm?, what's the endplay?

Some bearings are hard to find right now so if the cam looks good and you haven't mixed up the lifters splitting a known good case isn't someting to take lightly unless you are bent on a 100% new engine when you're done.
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.

Wanted, 68-73 westy OG plaid curtains, singles OK.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
al.hurst
Samba Member


Joined: February 13, 2010
Posts: 201
Location: Atlanta
al.hurst is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I havent driven the bus yet. It had low compresion on one cylinder when I got it so I tore it down.

I found these bearings...
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=971393
BUT im assuming there are more the one set of bearings. Question

I really just want to know that is I split the case and clean the case and whatnot, if it would be worthwile or even not good to do? I want to get a good look at it because I had the engine in the driveway with it all tore down and my dad decided it would be a good idea to wash it off.
I just want to see if there is any surface rust or anything on the inside.
Im not sure if that is even possible??
_________________
Dont ever pick your nose... It usually leads to RUST!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Jake Raby
Samba Member


Joined: August 23, 2003
Posts: 7175
Location: Aircooled Heaven USA
Jake Raby is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All the engine components have the same wear and miles. My experience with doing "top end" jobs has been les than positive..

Tighten up the top end with new found compression and stand by while the bottom end components prove they don't like it.
_________________
Jake Raby
Raby Engine Development
www.rabyenginedevelopment.com
"I've never given anyone Hell, I just told them the truth and they thought it was Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
al.hurst
Samba Member


Joined: February 13, 2010
Posts: 201
Location: Atlanta
al.hurst is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jake Raby wrote:
All the engine components have the same wear and miles. My experience with doing "top end" jobs has been les than positive..

Tighten up the top end with new found compression and stand by while the bottom end components prove they don't like it.


So, I need to rebuild the entire engine? I want to treat my Bus right but I also want to be able to drive it asap.

Im only 16 so money is a big issue. Rolling Eyes

Is there any other reason to split the case besides replace the crankshaft and camshaft and bearings?
_________________
Dont ever pick your nose... It usually leads to RUST!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Joey
Samba Member


Joined: August 12, 2005
Posts: 4472
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
Joey is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

al.hurst wrote:
Im only 16 so money is a big issue. Rolling Eyes


...and type IV parts are E X P E N S I V E ! ! !
_________________
Joey

'56 Beetle - '65 Beetle - '74 Bus - '79 Panel

vintagevdubbers.ca
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
al.hurst
Samba Member


Joined: February 13, 2010
Posts: 201
Location: Atlanta
al.hurst is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joey wrote:
al.hurst wrote:
Im only 16 so money is a big issue. Rolling Eyes


...and type IV parts are E X P E N S I V E ! ! !


I know thats right Sad 70 bucks for a gasket set! 200 to rebuild headasts 400 for P/Cs...

But I want a RELIABLE bus not necesarrily "fast"
_________________
Dont ever pick your nose... It usually leads to RUST!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
SGKent
Samba Member


Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 19977
Location: Sacramento CA
SGKent is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sometimes the low compression is a worn out bearing so the piston isn't moving very far. Split the case. It the parts are good then you might have a couple hundred dollars resizing the rods, new bearings and polishing the crank. If the parts are bad then it would have failed and maybe damaged the new parts. When you pull the lifters put each one in a plastic baggie and label which hole it came from. You must put each lifter back on the same lobe unless they are resurfaced.
_________________
77 bay
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
busdaddy
Samba Member


Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 28358
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, Land of the giant flying moose!
busdaddy is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well lets see some good, well lit, well focused pics of what you have, unless you plan on some epic interstate road trips you may be able to get by with what you have while you save up for that dream rebuild.
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.

Wanted, 68-73 westy OG plaid curtains, singles OK.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
al.hurst
Samba Member


Joined: February 13, 2010
Posts: 201
Location: Atlanta
al.hurst is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay. I am out of town for thanksgiving but when I get home I will.
What are you looking for? A picture through the hole where the pistons go?
_________________
Dont ever pick your nose... It usually leads to RUST!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
supersooner Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: July 27, 2005
Posts: 120
Location: At the ranch - 20 miles east of Oklahoma City
supersooner is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isn't align boring necessary if the case is split, or is that only with the old uprights? If it's a possibility then the poster might be able to get away with rings and a valve job for not so much money and do a complete rebuild later. Too risky?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
drober23
Samba Member


Joined: April 01, 2009
Posts: 786
Location: Detroit, MI
drober23 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 4:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom Wilson's book "How to Rebuild your Volkswagen Engine" would be appropriate right about now.

It gives you the background and procedures to evaluate the engine and its components. A tremendous book, really.

For instance, the book mentions that align boring is to be expected for a Type 1 case (as in you would be surprised if it did not need it done), but that the Type IV is stronger and this problem is less prevalent. He also explains how to do an align bore, so that when you take the case to an engine shop to be inspected you know what tolerances they are looking for and what they should do.
_________________
DJ

'75 Westfalia, '79 Deluxe, and some others...
(more busses than sense)

In a time of chimpanzees I was a monkey
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
al.hurst
Samba Member


Joined: February 13, 2010
Posts: 201
Location: Atlanta
al.hurst is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

drober23 wrote:
Tom Wilson's book "How to Rebuild your Volkswagen Engine" would be appropriate right about now.

It gives you the background and procedures to evaluate the engine and its components. A tremendous book, really.

For instance, the book mentions that align boring is to be expected for a Type 1 case (as in you would be surprised if it did not need it done), but that the Type IV is stronger and this problem is less prevalent. He also explains how to do an align bore, so that when you take the case to an engine shop to be inspected you know what tolerances they are looking for and what they should do.


I have that book, I havent read all the way thru it yet.
_________________
Dont ever pick your nose... It usually leads to RUST!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
busdaddy
Samba Member


Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 28358
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, Land of the giant flying moose!
busdaddy is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

al.hurst wrote:
I have that book, I havent read all the way thru it yet.

Please take it with you to the bathroom and get on it, continue this thread when the air clears Wink
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.

Wanted, 68-73 westy OG plaid curtains, singles OK.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
al.hurst
Samba Member


Joined: February 13, 2010
Posts: 201
Location: Atlanta
al.hurst is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

busdaddy wrote:
al.hurst wrote:
I have that book, I havent read all the way thru it yet.

Please take it with you to the bathroom and get on it, continue this thread when the air clears Wink


Will do sir!

Pass the Febreze.
_________________
Dont ever pick your nose... It usually leads to RUST!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
raygreenwood
Samba Member


Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 5436
Location: Des moines Iowa
raygreenwood is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jake Raby wrote:
All the engine components have the same wear and miles. My experience with doing "top end" jobs has been les than positive..

Tighten up the top end with new found compression and stand by while the bottom end components prove they don't like it.


X2 on this. If you have an unknown engine....it is a potential waste of rebuilt heads to not at least disassemble,clean and measure the bottom end. Ray
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
SGKent
Samba Member


Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 19977
Location: Sacramento CA
SGKent is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

okcattleco wrote:
Isn't align boring necessary if the case is split, or is that only with the old uprights? If it's a possibility then the poster might be able to get away with rings and a valve job for not so much money and do a complete rebuild later. Too risky?


Align boring is only necessary when the bearings have pounded the case saddles or the case is warped. Typically T1 engines see it more because they are weaker. T4 cases are less common being alignbored. American and European straight 6 engines are most common because the blocks sag in the middle. V8's etc ususually have it done when building a racing motor and they want the engine blueprinted. Sometimes it is done on water cooled engines to make sure the crankshaft and cylinders are at the correct angle in racing because if not the cylinders at one end will have more displacement/compression than the ones at the other end.

You never want to align bore a VW unless it needs it. You can't get the metal back.
_________________
77 bay
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
pnocean
Samba Member


Joined: April 23, 2004
Posts: 33

pnocean is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joey wrote:
al.hurst wrote:
Im only 16 so money is a big issue. Rolling Eyes


...and type IV parts are E X P E N S I V E ! ! !


I just got through working with a good bus mechanic and got about $3600.00 into a "rebuild" on my '79 Westy. The only parts from the old motor were the connecting rods, and crank and AMC heads. Sent the crank out to be ground and polished. Got a gift of very nice Type IV block from a good Buses by the Beach friend, but purchased new oil pump, pistons, lifters, valves, pushrods. Also installed a extra oil capacity deep sump and 2 Dakota Digital gauges; CHT and OT.
_________________
'79 Westy "Aardvark"
'87 Westy "JoesVan"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
al.hurst
Samba Member


Joined: February 13, 2010
Posts: 201
Location: Atlanta
al.hurst is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay so I think I have answered my question...

Pros:
-Inspect crank.
-Grind crank if needed.
-Polish crank
-?Balance Crank?
-Balance Rods
-Inspect Cam(Check for lobe wear)
-Replace Cam if needed
-Inspect lifter, replace if needed
-Hot tank the case

Cons:
-May find parts needed to be replaced
-Hard to split the case.

Am I missing anything? Cool
_________________
Dont ever pick your nose... It usually leads to RUST!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Bay Window Bus All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2013, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB