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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22508 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2021 5:41 pm Post subject: Re: Alternator light,? WHERE? |
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Your alternator isn’t outputting
Don’t buy a “new one” , take it or bring it to an auto electric shop and have it rebuilt.
Don’t delay, people literally died waiting for the answers on this thread
Rip , aloha
-tp _________________ .ssS! |
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NorthOf50 Samba Member
Joined: October 13, 2020 Posts: 102 Location: Campbell River, BC
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Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2021 5:32 pm Post subject: Re: Alternator light,? WHERE? |
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Hmmmm looks like a smoking gun! You can try to jump from the main connector to the rear of the pcb and see if that works. Looks like you might be in order for a pcb replacement kit, I'm not sure how you'd go about repairing the pcb at the connector. I'm sure there are some wiser more experienced members who might be able to weigh in there... Good luck! _________________ '84 1.9WBX Camper (Penny)
'88 2.1WBX Camper (Martin) |
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Hexie Samba Member
Joined: November 10, 2020 Posts: 29 Location: Charleston, SC
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Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:27 pm Post subject: Re: Alternator light,? WHERE? |
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NorthOf50 wrote: |
Did you try Mark's suggestion to jump the blue wire from the b+ with engine running? If you do that and it starts charging, then it's a problem with the excite circuit, if not then it's the alt or part of it.
Mine was the OG alt so I felt good putting a brand new one in (and I got it at a good discount, $120cad). I had mine bench tested at a local shop just to be sure. If you just swap out the VR I'd think about getting an adjustable one.
Your symptoms sound identical to mine though. |
Haven't tried that yet... the wires going into my alternator (blue and 2 reds) connect through a plastic connector, making it tough to make the jump since i can't really get to the leads.
However, troubleshooting yesterday I did find two hints at what could be going on:
1. My voltage regulator is worn down, below the 5mm brush length Bentley calls out as the min (4.3mm)
2. After checking continuity of the blue wire all the way up to the dash, I pulled the instrument cluster out and saw that many of the metal pads on the main connector of the pcb ribbon are folded down! The ones looking in really bad shape all correspond to things on my dash that have not been working... including the ALT light. Now for fixing these connections, gonna have to do some digging. 40 year old pcb ribbon is not very forgiving.
For context, here's a pic (blue wire corresponds to 2nd pin from top:
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NorthOf50 Samba Member
Joined: October 13, 2020 Posts: 102 Location: Campbell River, BC
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Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:46 pm Post subject: Re: Alternator light,? WHERE? |
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Did you try Mark's suggestion to jump the blue wire from the b+ with engine running? If you do that and it starts charging, then it's a problem with the excite circuit, if not then it's the alt or part of it.
Mine was the OG alt so I felt good putting a brand new one in (and I got it at a good discount, $120cad). I had mine bench tested at a local shop just to be sure. If you just swap out the VR I'd think about getting an adjustable one.
Your symptoms sound identical to mine though. _________________ '84 1.9WBX Camper (Penny)
'88 2.1WBX Camper (Martin) |
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Hexie Samba Member
Joined: November 10, 2020 Posts: 29 Location: Charleston, SC
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Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:35 pm Post subject: Re: Alternator light,? WHERE? |
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crazyvwvanman wrote: |
A new regulator module would probably have fixed it.
They are less than $20 delivered if you shop around.
I carry a spare in my vans. The brushes are part of the module and the brushes wear out.
Mark |
I am having this same problem (no ALT light illuminating on my dash) and not getting any charge from my alternator.
Would replacing the regulator module be a good step to take? I have been running continuity tests on my blue wire and it seems good all the way up to the cluster, where I haven't really dug around too much yet to check the actual LED. I guess main question would be... would faulty regulator cause that light (and the OXS one) to never light up? |
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crazyvwvanman Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008 Posts: 9889 Location: Orbiting San Diego
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Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 3:51 pm Post subject: Re: Alternator light,? WHERE? |
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A new regulator module would probably have fixed it.
They are less than $20 delivered if you shop around.
I carry a spare in my vans. The brushes are part of the module and the brushes wear out.
Mark |
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NorthOf50 Samba Member
Joined: October 13, 2020 Posts: 102 Location: Campbell River, BC
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Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 2:45 pm Post subject: Re: Alternator light,? WHERE? |
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Hi, yes thanks. I understand all that. What tipped me off to the busted alt (just bought the van) was that the warning light never illuminated at all, key on, off, etc.
I'm just wondering, why did it not light up? my understanding is that with a complete 12V circuit through the light @ key on, it should light up. Then theoretically it should also light up should the alt fail. is this not correct? I'm just wondering what part of the failed alt caused the light not to activate ever. clearly something inside the alt was not allowing the current through the warning circuit to flow to ground, but what exactly?
in any case, I'll soon be installed a voltage meter of some form or another however I suspect with a new alt & battery I should be good to go for quite some time. _________________ '84 1.9WBX Camper (Penny)
'88 2.1WBX Camper (Martin) |
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crazyvwvanman Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008 Posts: 9889 Location: Orbiting San Diego
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Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:19 am Post subject: Re: Alternator light,? WHERE? |
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It is assumed that the driver knows to look at the warning lights before starting the engine and to then watch to see that the ones that should turn off do in fact turn off.
Why would it be a surprise that a warning light that didn't work properly before you started the engine would also not work after the engine starts?
The main purpose of the alternator warning light in most Vanagons is to save the engine from DAMAGE.
The waterpump is critical to the engine and the waterpump belt also turns the alternator.
So when the alternator warning light comes on while driving that is your early warning to stop and LOOK NOW to make sure the waterpump is still turning. If you ignore this your next warnings may include clouds of smoke and/or steam in your mirrors, along with the frantically waving arms of your fellow motorists.
Our old vans are fairly simple vehicles and the driver has to play a role. Yes, with more modern vehicles it is common to have more complex monitoring systems than vehicles designed over 40 years ago typically had.
Mark
NorthOf50 wrote: |
......
Why, with a dead ALT, would the warning light not light up when you turn the key on and also not light up when the engine is running? With this new alt installed it appears to be working but I assumed that the whole point of the warning light was to warn you that the alt was dead (or other, etc)...?? |
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NorthOf50 Samba Member
Joined: October 13, 2020 Posts: 102 Location: Campbell River, BC
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Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:46 pm Post subject: Re: Alternator light,? WHERE? |
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I'll answer my own question. The alternator was dead. Not sure if it was the VR or what. I took it to a local shop, they put in on the bench and confirmed output of 0V. I picked up a reman from Lordco (it is an AC Delco), after swapping the pulleys etc and cutting the case through bolts down by 1/2" it fit like a glove and am now getting 14.7V and the alt idiot light is functioning as it should.
If anyone with some good knowledge happens to read this:
Why, with a dead ALT, would the warning light not light up when you turn the key on and also not light up when the engine is running? With this new alt installed it appears to be working but I assumed that the whole point of the warning light was to warn you that the alt was dead (or other, etc)...?? _________________ '84 1.9WBX Camper (Penny)
'88 2.1WBX Camper (Martin) |
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NorthOf50 Samba Member
Joined: October 13, 2020 Posts: 102 Location: Campbell River, BC
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Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 10:54 pm Post subject: Re: Alternator light,? WHERE? |
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Bump on the topic since I can't find a better one.
I'm having a similar problem as the OP.
Alt light does not light with key on, eng off. When I ground blue alt wire with key on it lights (and I also measure 12V to Gnd thru it). Very rarely the alt light will light if eng running but it basically is just always off no matter what.
I have 12.6V @ Batt and @ Alt with all off.
I have 12.3V with eng on.
I have removed the alt, inspected the brushes and slip rings, both seem fine and not overly worn but not new. Alt is back in place, belts tight. Grounding is good from alt to body and ver'd against gnd from eng to body.
I have the Bentley but am having a hard time deciphering. pg 97.56 seems to show path 26 just going from alt (t1c) to t2b which would indicate that it's just a straight run from the alt to the dash. is this correct? The light does work when the blue is grounded so I'm pretty sure that the wire continuity must be good.
I have also tried manually exciting the alt from B+ to D- post but alt still just gives out 12.3V
Alternator fried? am I missing something else?
Thanks in advance. _________________ '84 1.9WBX Camper (Penny)
'88 2.1WBX Camper (Martin) |
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greenplasticme Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2011 Posts: 44 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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I'm having a very similar problem with my '83 Water-cooled Westy. Both the ALT & OSX lights are on when key is turned and ignition is on or off.
What I've done so far:
1) Disconnected the blue wire from the alternator. (Light still blinks)
2) Disconnected the blue wire from the alternator and completed the circuit (via paper clip/multimeter) Multimeter showed 0.
3) Tested connection up front where 14-point connector connects to wire connector. (Lights go off)
I am thinking the blue wire is at fault here. Just wondering how I go about replacing it?
Thanks |
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Timwhy Samba Member
Joined: January 01, 2009 Posts: 3990 Location: Maine
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irgsmoore4 Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2010 Posts: 211 Location: Bellingham WA
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Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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you are a genius, the light came on and when she stated the light went out. At the alt i had 14.02 and at the battery theres 13.95 (i charged the bat yesterday), so all should be good , thank you so much for your help, now to remove the old wire and put in a permanent one. again thank you. _________________ Ivan
99 Eurovan (The Tortuga)
87 2.1 WBX Vanagon ( Elsie ) sold
Wife,3 kids 1 dog(luna)
"Needle Noddle Noo" |
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crazyvwvanman Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008 Posts: 9889 Location: Orbiting San Diego
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Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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If the alt light comes on when the key is turned on and then goes out after the engine is started it indicates that charging is taking place. You should measure the voltage to be sure.
At the alternator 13mm nut red wire you should see at least 13.5 volts measured between there and the case of the alternator. Then measure at the 2 battery posts to see how much voltage is getting there. If the battery is drained, the voltage at the battery will be lower until it is fully charged.
Mark
irgsmoore4 wrote: |
so i attached a wire from the alt to the blue that goes to the light and the light came on, so the wire must be broke that runs to the alt . will this now solve my problem? will the alt now charge?[/img] |
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irgsmoore4 Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2010 Posts: 211 Location: Bellingham WA
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Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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i cant attach a pic (im a dumb@ss and dont know how)!!!!!!!!!!!!!! _________________ Ivan
99 Eurovan (The Tortuga)
87 2.1 WBX Vanagon ( Elsie ) sold
Wife,3 kids 1 dog(luna)
"Needle Noddle Noo" |
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irgsmoore4 Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2010 Posts: 211 Location: Bellingham WA
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Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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so i attached a wire from the alt to the blue that goes to the light and the light came on, so the wire must be broke that runs to the alt . will this now solve my problem? will the alt now charge?[/img] _________________ Ivan
99 Eurovan (The Tortuga)
87 2.1 WBX Vanagon ( Elsie ) sold
Wife,3 kids 1 dog(luna)
"Needle Noddle Noo" |
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crazyvwvanman Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008 Posts: 9889 Location: Orbiting San Diego
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Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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No, grounding the blue wire will make the dash led work but keep the alternator from charging.
Ok, are you saying the light still does not come on when attached to the alternator but does now come on when the wire is grounded by hand?
If so, I wonder if you are attaching the blue wire to the right place. Can you post a photo of the back of the alternator with your wires attached?
The most likely explaination is that the blue wire has an internal break and when you held it to ground you pulled it such that it made contact inside for a moment. I would try a new wire from T1d to the alternator D+. Any gauge wire from 20 or larger should work. 16 or 14 is more ideal for a permanent replacement.
Mark
irgsmoore4 wrote: |
so should i run a ground from the blue wire while its on the alt? would this solve the problem, seems to me like the alt is not grounded enough. although i have attached a ground to the alt. |
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irgsmoore4 Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2010 Posts: 211 Location: Bellingham WA
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Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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so should i run a ground from the blue wire while its on the alt? would this solve the problem, seems to me like the alt is not grounded enough. although i have attached a ground to the alt. _________________ Ivan
99 Eurovan (The Tortuga)
87 2.1 WBX Vanagon ( Elsie ) sold
Wife,3 kids 1 dog(luna)
"Needle Noddle Noo" |
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irgsmoore4 Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2010 Posts: 211 Location: Bellingham WA
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Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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so i pulled off the blue wire, put key in grounded blue wire and voila , LED came on. _________________ Ivan
99 Eurovan (The Tortuga)
87 2.1 WBX Vanagon ( Elsie ) sold
Wife,3 kids 1 dog(luna)
"Needle Noddle Noo" |
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Tom Powell Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2005 Posts: 4855 Location: Kaneohe
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Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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OK, pull the blue wire off again. Then have someone watch the led while you touch the blue wire to bare metal on the engine. The led should come on whenever the blue wire is grounded to bare metal. Does it?
Mark
irgsmoore4 wrote: |
no luck, the LED still did not light up. |
Should this test have been done with the key on?
tp |
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