Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
why won't it start? please help! '66 beetle
Forum Index -> Beetle - 1958-1967 Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
bomberbaja
Samba Member


Joined: January 18, 2010
Posts: 558
Location: Tri-Cities WA
bomberbaja is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 1:02 pm    Post subject: why won't it start? please help! '66 beetle Reply with quote

Hey so I have a '66 beetle, cnverted to 12v. I was driving in a parking lot when the car died on me (it was really cold btw). I still have gas, and the battery is fully charged. i checked and the cables to the starter are hooked up. the car won't even crank though. i noticed the #1 fuse had burned out, so i replaced it (it was a 16, but i just replaced w/ an 8 because that's what i read to do on thesamba). i turned the key, and the new fuse immediately burned out. Any ideas about what could be wrong?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
bomberbaja
Samba Member


Joined: January 18, 2010
Posts: 558
Location: Tri-Cities WA
bomberbaja is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bump
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
djkeev Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 10719
Location: North West New Jersey
djkeev is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Go look at this..

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiring/bug_66.jpg

They should be 8's anyway.
Somewhere along that wires that connect to that fuse there is a short. Worn insulation or something. Disconnect wires from that fuse one by one by one. Put in a fuse, turn it on, See if the fuse pops. IF it doesn't pop with a given wire removed, that's your problem wire. Find out where it goes, find out what is wrong and fix it.
These cars are EASY for electrical repairs!

BTW, starters aren't fused.

Dave
_________________
Current Project...... 86 Vanagon Westy "Weekender"
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

Karmann Ghia project, two become one!
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473

(o)=l=(o)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
neuro1985
Samba Member


Joined: April 14, 2010
Posts: 4
Location: Surrey
neuro1985 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 12:41 pm    Post subject: Kinda same issue. Reply with quote

Hi guys, in relation to my problem, this is the closest I have got to finding someone with nearly the same issue!

It goes like this; In the morning, I start my car and drive to work. At the end of the day I drive home. Sounds good so far....

After 4-8 days, I will start my car and it seems a little flakey, takes a little longer to start. When I get to my destination I stop turn of the car and the trouble starts.

Whether it's five mins later or 12 hours later, I pop the key in the ignition and it does nothing and I mean nothing. I get no clicks, splutters or noise of any type.

You might want to say, 'check the battery with a multimeter, how's your volts looking?' The dynamo was recently replaced and everything is charging perfectly, the battery is fully charged.

However, on the odd occasion, I can leave it for the night; I'll come back and it just about starts again but it takes its sweet time about it.

On a whim, I take the battery inside and charge it over night anyway. For some reason this has done something; all of a sudden the car is starting like nothing has happened.

What's going on, please help me?! If anyone could point me in the direction of anything that may help, it would be most appreciated.


By the way, it's a 1970 beetle, 1300cc!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger Facebook Twitter Classifieds Feedback
dakdak
Samba Member


Joined: March 09, 2009
Posts: 578
Location: Sydney, Australia
dakdak is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 1:08 pm    Post subject: Re: why won't it start? please help! '66 beetle Reply with quote

bomberbaja wrote:
Hey so I have a '66 beetle, cnverted to 12v. I was driving in a parking lot when the car died on me (it was really cold btw). I still have gas, and the battery is fully charged. i checked and the cables to the starter are hooked up. the car won't even crank though. i noticed the #1 fuse had burned out, so i replaced it (it was a 16, but i just replaced w/ an 8 because that's what i read to do on thesamba). i turned the key, and the new fuse immediately burned out. Any ideas about what could be wrong?


The fuses at positions 1 and 8 (assuming you have the 8-fuse fuse box should be the red 16A and the remaining 6 in between should ne the white 8A fuses.

Check for a short or grounding in the wiring. According to the linked diagram posted earlier, you have the wipers, flasher relay, horn and coil going through that fuse. Check these items and see how you go.
_________________
The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie - deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth - persistent, persuasive and unrealistic.

JFK
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
dakdak
Samba Member


Joined: March 09, 2009
Posts: 578
Location: Sydney, Australia
dakdak is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 1:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Kinda same issue. Reply with quote

neuro1985 wrote:
Hi guys, in relation to my problem, this is the closest I have got to finding someone with nearly the same issue!

It goes like this; In the morning, I start my car and drive to work. At the end of the day I drive home. Sounds good so far....

After 4-8 days, I will start my car and it seems a little flakey, takes a little longer to start. When I get to my destination I stop turn of the car and the trouble starts.

Whether it's five mins later or 12 hours later, I pop the key in the ignition and it does nothing and I mean nothing. I get no clicks, splutters or noise of any type.

You might want to say, 'check the battery with a multimeter, how's your volts looking?' The dynamo was recently replaced and everything is charging perfectly, the battery is fully charged.

However, on the odd occasion, I can leave it for the night; I'll come back and it just about starts again but it takes its sweet time about it.

On a whim, I take the battery inside and charge it over night anyway. For some reason this has done something; all of a sudden the car is starting like nothing has happened.

What's going on, please help me?! If anyone could point me in the direction of anything that may help, it would be most appreciated.


By the way, it's a 1970 beetle, 1300cc!


You could have an electrical drain/leak that drains your engine over a period of time until you have nothing left for a start. It could be the interior light, brake light switch sticking or any number of things that are causing your drain on the electrical system.

During colder weather, it will normally take longer for the car to start.

I had a similar problem with my battery, even after replacing it with a new high capacity battery. It ended up being that the regulator was not set high enough to charge the battery and over a period of a week or so, the battery would drop down to just s few volts. Your generator/alternator should be putting out about 14.2V unloaded and should be in the mid to high 13V range under load, so you don't inadvertently discharge the battery.

Hope this helps.
_________________
The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie - deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth - persistent, persuasive and unrealistic.

JFK
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
neuro1985
Samba Member


Joined: April 14, 2010
Posts: 4
Location: Surrey
neuro1985 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 1:29 pm    Post subject: The next step.... Reply with quote

Hi, thanks for the quick reply!

I'm not sure if I'm being stupid, I'm not very good with electronics but my battery is putting out the right voltage, even when the car wont start and it charges well too. I have the problem this second and I've checked the voltage and it's roughly 12.5 volts.

If I was draining or leaking, surely I would lose voltage?
_________________
NEURO
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger Facebook Twitter Classifieds Feedback
neuro1985
Samba Member


Joined: April 14, 2010
Posts: 4
Location: Surrey
neuro1985 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 1:49 pm    Post subject: Revelation Reply with quote

Ok, so I have been a bit of a muppet to some extent, I hold my hands out to be smacked.

Usually when I check my multimeter it's in the middle of the day so never remember to put my headlights on.

Currently, when there is no load on the battery, it's charging at just shy of 14volts which is a little low but when I put the head lamps on, boy did it shoot down. It started at about 13.5 volts then started rapidly dropping by 5's

Now my journey to and from work is a 40 mile round trip and is done at a time when I need lights on.

I know that something doesn't smell right here so where do I go next?

Just as a side note though, I still can't explain why when I get home and it won't start that it's still holding 12.5 Volts.
_________________
NEURO
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger Facebook Twitter Classifieds Feedback
61SNRF
Samba Member


Joined: March 29, 2009
Posts: 2688
Location: St Charles, Mo
61SNRF is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

neuro1985, the fact that it starts after you r&r the battery could indicate a poor connection at the terminals. Maybe disturbing them fixes it temporarily?
One next step if you have a voltmeter, is to leave it hooked to the battery and observe what happens when you turn the key on, then when you turn the key to start.
If it stays the same when you turn the key on, the ignition switch is not closing. If it stays the same when you crank same thing bad ign switch. Try wiggling the key at the same time.

If you see the voltage drop when you turn the key on, that's normal. How much I can't say offhand, maybe 1 or 2 volts at the most. When you turn to crank it should drop even more. But, you shouldn't see less than 9.8v under load though, that may indicate a weak or bad battery if it does.
What happens when you do these tests may help find a path to take next.
_________________
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
Bruce W. Frye
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
61SNRF
Samba Member


Joined: March 29, 2009
Posts: 2688
Location: St Charles, Mo
61SNRF is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would start with a complete test of the battery. Starting with specific gravity test, you'll need a hydrometer for that. All cells should be over 1.255 and no more than .50 difference. Lower than that it will need charging.
If they are all up and over at least 1.255, then you can perform a load test on it. You will need a carbon pile for this test. Many auto parts stores here have them and will test your battery for free. Not sure if you have that service or not. It should not drop under 9.8v with a load equal to roughly one third of the CCA rating on the battery.
If that checks okay, then I would suspect the charging system is not keeping up with the load. This can be caused by poor connections as well, so first off I would check all the cables and grounds are tight and clean.
Hope this helps, got to get back to work now.
_________________
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
Bruce W. Frye
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Erik G
Samba Member


Joined: October 16, 2002
Posts: 7408
Location: in your head
Erik G is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

connections and/or groundstrap, from transmission to the chassis. clean all of them, and make sure the connections are tight
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
dakdak
Samba Member


Joined: March 09, 2009
Posts: 578
Location: Sydney, Australia
dakdak is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 4:59 am    Post subject: Re: Revelation Reply with quote

neuro1985 wrote:
Ok, so I have been a bit of a muppet to some extent, I hold my hands out to be smacked.

Usually when I check my multimeter it's in the middle of the day so never remember to put my headlights on.

Currently, when there is no load on the battery, it's charging at just shy of 14volts which is a little low but when I put the head lamps on, boy did it shoot down. It started at about 13.5 volts then started rapidly dropping by 5's

Now my journey to and from work is a 40 mile round trip and is done at a time when I need lights on.

I know that something doesn't smell right here so where do I go next?

Just as a side note though, I still can't explain why when I get home and it won't start that it's still holding 12.5 Volts.


As has been stated, you may have the voltage, but not the cranking amps to start. This is where the difference is in the battery. The CCA (Cold Cranking Amps) is what turns your starter. The older style batteries were about 250 CCA capacity while some of the newer ones or the Optima batteries are up to about 1000 CCA.

Depending on the type of generator/regulator you have you, can adjust the voltage output. The older mechanical ones could be adjusted by opening or closing the internal points in the regulator. This is the problem I had when I changed batteries. The regulator output wasn't enough to maintain a charge over a period of a week. Like yourself, it was in winter when I needed lights in the early morning. Twice I drained my battery (purchased in September '09) because of this. Once I adjusted the regulator output, I have never had a problem since, and that was in May 2010.

I was at a point I would keep my battery on charge overnight for fear of it not starting in the morning.

But it won't hurt to also check your groundings and connections also.

Hope this helps.
_________________
The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie - deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth - persistent, persuasive and unrealistic.

JFK
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
neuro1985
Samba Member


Joined: April 14, 2010
Posts: 4
Location: Surrey
neuro1985 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:54 am    Post subject: Getting there! Reply with quote

Hey Guys,

Thanks for all your help. I get the feeling it came down to several issues.

I've replaced the voltage regulator and I'm now getting a better charge and it seems to be maintaining the Cold Charging Amps.
While I was jamming my heater channels open under the car; I took a look at the started motor, I removed all the connections, cleaned them up and tightened anything that needed it.

As a result, the car starts first time everytime and it appears that I no longer have to charge the battery in the house at night but shall keep an eye on it just incase.

Just a couple more jobs left to do, replacing the ignition switch, redoing my brake system and finding out where the darn leak is coming from in the passanger footwell.
_________________
NEURO
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger Facebook Twitter Classifieds Feedback
KTPhil Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 18122
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
KTPhil is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check your wiring with the diagram here on the Samba. Starting should have NOTHING to do with a fuse. However, the fuse box is used by VW as a handy multi-point connection for the hot lead. But the current does NOT go through the fuse. Study the current paths in the wiring diagram unti this makes sense to you. It is also possible your starter switch is miswired (backwards).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
RA 70
Samba Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 987
Location: Sacramento
RA 70 is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 1:35 am    Post subject: Re: Getting there! Reply with quote

neuro1985 wrote:
finding out where the darn leak is coming from in the passanger footwell.


Look under the battery!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Beetle - 1958-1967 All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2013, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB