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danfromsyr Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2004 Posts: 15129 Location: Syracuse, NY
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Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:10 am Post subject: |
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my few biggest problems with the Mr Buddy heater are the short duration for the 1# green propane bottles. I only get ~4hrs so no real fear of dying throughout the night..
and the hot surface
nothing like the smell of a wisp of dog fur from a swishing tail,
or the crisp edges of a chared pillow or sleeping bag/jacket that by chance brushed against it.
with children, I'd say certainly NO WAY (for many reasons)
for mom's camper I'd say NO WAY (she's nearing 70 and well, not worth the risks)
for my camper, sure we used one to take the chill off for a few years.. but now with a 80# dog who's furry tail is as big as what many others call a "dog" NO,
for my retired ironworker father while he still was active or my older brother's setup sure, with only a few problems/mishaps.
but i've found that while watching the Regional Craiglist or the local pick-n-pull yards that the RV propane furnaces come along in very nice operating condition for ~$100
I'll always promote Karl's Propex as 'The Best' but for some money can't buy what there's not money for.
_________________
Abscate wrote: |
These are the reasons we have words like “wanker” |
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climberjohn Samba Member
Joined: January 11, 2005 Posts: 1840 Location: Portland Orygun
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Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:24 am Post subject: |
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Volksaholic wrote: |
I'd rather have a good warm bag, heat up the van, then shut the heater down and rely on the bag until morning when I can fire up the heater again.
Paul |
Now HERE is a very sensible and cost effective solution, (my personal choice ). Use the portable gas heaters mentioned above for taking the edge off of chilly evenings and mornings. When it's time to sleep, dive into your super warm sleeping bag. Keep the heater on the floor within arms reach of your bag, and lean over turn it on in first thing in the morning.
If you use regularly use your Van as base camp for cold weather sports, cold weather camp at high altitudes where the portable heaters may have problems, or simply want the best, go with the Propex. I hope to someday, after all the other mods on the to-do list are taken care of . . .
Good general description of Propex heaters:
http://www.smallcar.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=29955
A bit off topic, but see this link for a nice, inexpensive cold weather military tested sleeping bag system:
http://www.armygear.net/ag/store/00148.html
PS: Jon_Slider, excellent post, thanks for taking the time. _________________ '86 Westy, 2.5 Subaru power
Know your limits. Exceed them often. |
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westyventures Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2004 Posts: 2305 Location: Oregon Outback
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climberjohn Samba Member
Joined: January 11, 2005 Posts: 1840 Location: Portland Orygun
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Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 9:42 am Post subject: |
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Hi Karl,
Thanks for that observation. I looked for such info on your site, but apparently not hard enough.
Shamless plug and note to Propex buyers:
Buy from Karl, The Man who brought them here in the first place.
-CJ _________________ '86 Westy, 2.5 Subaru power
Know your limits. Exceed them often. |
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bizbebl Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2010 Posts: 23 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 9:54 am Post subject: |
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In order to add a data point to this discussion: I just installed a Propex from Westyventures (under the rear seat) in my 82 Westy. Took a couple of partial days and I had to replace the old right side propane tank to get it to work properly.
Personally, I like the idea of down sleeping bag and use the heater to warm things up but that was vetoed by girl friend. Regardless of manufacturer claims, I would never run a propane heater in a closed space while sleeping. I worked as a volunteer Search and Rescue type in CO for a number of years and at least twice was involved in finding people dead from enclosed propane heaters - one tent, one camper. It is not a pretty sight.
If you are going to use a free standing heater that consumes internal air and also exhausts into the living space, only do it while you are awake and watching it. There is a small but very real chance you could "wake up dead" as someone else noted.
The Propex draws combustion air in and exhausts waste to/from the OUTSIDE of the van. This, or a similar setup, is the only way to go. No it isn't cheap, but then funerals now are running a minimum of $2k around here.
Robert _________________ A lifetime of VWs: 1956 Bus, 1963 panel van, 1968 bus, 2 Vanagons, 3-5 bugs ranging from 1960 to 1971, plus one oh so sweet 71 squareback.
Currently an 82 Westy with Subby engine and an 05 Passat. |
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westyventures Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2004 Posts: 2305 Location: Oregon Outback
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Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 10:01 am Post subject: |
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climberjohn wrote: |
Hi Karl,
Thanks for that observation. I looked for such info on your site, but apparently not hard enough.
Shamless plug and note to Propex buyers:
Buy from Karl, The Man who brought them here in the first place.
-CJ |
My site is a mess right now - no time to work on making it better - so I am in the process of hiring someone to rework it. Some things, like the .pdf brochure link, are difficult to see. |
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whynotvw Samba Member
Joined: May 04, 2004 Posts: 1322
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Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:04 am Post subject: |
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bizbebl wrote: |
In order to add a data point to this discussion: I just installed a Propex from Westyventures (under the rear seat) in my 82 Westy. Took a couple of partial days and I had to replace the old right side propane tank to get it to work properly.
Personally, I like the idea of down sleeping bag and use the heater to warm things up but that was vetoed by girl friend. Regardless of manufacturer claims, I would never run a propane heater in a closed space while sleeping. I worked as a volunteer Search and Rescue type in CO for a number of years and at least twice was involved in finding people dead from enclosed propane heaters - one tent, one camper. It is not a pretty sight.
If you are going to use a free standing heater that consumes internal air and also exhausts into the living space, only do it while you are awake and watching it. There is a small but very real chance you could "wake up dead" as someone else noted.
The Propex draws combustion air in and exhausts waste to/from the OUTSIDE of the van. This, or a similar setup, is the only way to go. No it isn't cheap, but then funerals now are running a minimum of $2k around here.
Robert |
I used the procat from coleman propane heater many times and I never woke up dead. I also bought a CO detector to be safe. Cost me about $130 for both. I used that heater temporarily until I saved enough to buy the Propex system.
Before I bought the procat from coleman I read all the feedback from Amazon and other sites then made the purchase. I would encourage people to use some caution and buy a CO detector and read all the feedback on the portable heater.
By the way I bought my propex from Van-Cafe and they gave me the best deal because I buy from them all the time. Chris who works there was also very helpful. I also called Carl at Westyventures after the install for some questions and Carl as alwyays was very supportive about his product. Thanks Carl. |
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westyventures Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2004 Posts: 2305 Location: Oregon Outback
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Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:17 am Post subject: |
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Now if I could just get ya used to using the German spelling...with a 'K'. |
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tclark Samba Member
Joined: November 21, 2005 Posts: 926
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Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 11:17 am Post subject: |
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I just wanted to post a REAL U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission study using catalytic heater in an enclosed space
Seems that if you provide an appropriate vent opening ( 6x6") in the van there is no real danger to using a catalytic heater, and the danger is all from o2 depletion NOT Co2
http://www.cpsc.gov/library/foia/foia05/os/co03.pdf
CPSC staff tested a catalytic heater as part of a project to document the CO emissions from
currently available camp heaters in order to determine if the heaters complied with the combustion
requirements in the voluntary standard Portable Type Gas Camp Heaters (ANSI Z21.63-2000). Although
the catalytic heater is not within the scope of ANSI Z21.63, it was included as part of the project since the
catalytic heater was being marketed for use inside tents and other indoor areas. The voluntary standard
applicable for catalytic camp heaters is ANSI Z21.62, but the standard was withdrawn in 1992. A new
standard is currently being written for catalytic camp heaters.
Although both ANSI Z21.62 (draft) and ANSI Z21.63 (2000) are for camp heaters (e.g., small
portable heaters that typically use a disposable 1-pound bottle of propane), the two standards have
different combustion requirements. ANSI Z21.62 (draft) limits the CO and hydrocarbon emissions at
specific O2 concentrations, but does not limit the depletion of O2. ANSI Z21.63 (2000) limits the CO
emissions and O2 depletion throughout the entire test.
The follow ing is a summary of CPSC staff’s findings on the testing of the catalytic heater:
· The peak CO concentration ranged from 68 ppm to 125 ppm and the steady state CO
concentration ranged from 67 ppm to 109 ppm. Assuming a limited exposure time of up to 6.5
hours at these CO concentrations, the catalytic heater does not appear to pose a serious CO hazard
to healthy adults when the CO concentration is considered by itself.
· When the catalytic heater was operated in a closed room (ACH ~ 0), the oxygen was depleted
from an ambient concentration of 20.9 percent to 8.8 percent. Because the catalytic heater can
deplete the O2 concentration to such low levels, the heater poses a serious risk of hypoxia. The
degree of hypoxia is further exacerbated by the moderate CO concentration and by an increase in
the carbon dioxide concentration that accompanied the depletion of oxygen.
· As the oxygen decreased in the chamber, the catalytic heater became less effective at converting
the propane and oxygen to carbon dioxide and water vapor. This was reflected by an increase in
the hydrocarbon concentration in the chamber, which ranged from 1,050 ppm to 13,440 ppm (5 to
64 percent of the lower explosion limit of propane in air). The unreacted propane further
increases the degree of hypoxia.
· The heater’s catalyst did not appear to degrade over time. This observation is based on operating
two identical heaters on 100 disposable 1-pound bottles of propane (approximately 650 hours).
Emission tests were performed on each heater after every 20th bottle of propane (approximately
every 130 hours).
· The catalytic heater did comply with the combustion requirements currently specified in the draft
version of the standard for catalytic camp heaters (ANSI Z21.62).
· The catalytic heater did not comply with the combustion requirements specified in the standard
for infrared radiant camp heaters (ANSI Z21.63-2000). The heater depleted the O2 concentration
below 16 percent in the test chamber and also exceeded the 100 ppm limit for CO in the test
chamber. _________________ 89 Westy with TDI AHU 1.9 manual lots of mods
85 GL 1.9, auto (for sold) |
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Wasted youth Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2012 Posts: 5134 Location: California's Hot and Smoggy Central Valley
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Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 7:54 am Post subject: |
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I installed a small pot-bellied stove. I think it was supposed to be a decorative patio ornament, but I burn all kinds of things in it, and I get a lot of heat. The feet melted holes in the rubber floor mat, and the middle seat is pretty singed, but it doesn't smoke up the inside of my bus too bad, and the smoke stack popped out the side window looks cool. The soot streak running down the side adds a nice accent to the patina.
I usually wind up leaving a door or two open when I go crawl in to pass out, so ventillation hasn't been a problem. Sometimes it falls over when I take curves too fast.
I can cook on it, too. |
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dhaavers Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010 Posts: 7733 Location: NE MN (tinyurl.com/dhaaverslocation)
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Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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Pics or I smell a troll...funny, though! _________________ 86 White Wolfsburg Westy Weekender
"The WonderVan"
<EDITED TO PROTECT INNOCENT PIXELS> |
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Wasted youth Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2012 Posts: 5134 Location: California's Hot and Smoggy Central Valley
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Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 12:13 am Post subject: |
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Sorry, no pics. I couldn't help it! It was late, I was tired, it won't happen again, blah blah blah.
I was actually trying to find opinions on catalytic camp heaters inside the bus. I think the best opinion I read was to heat it up just before bed, shut it off and leave it within arms' reach to restart in the morning. Have a carbon and smoke alarm, too. Not a big fan of oxygen depletion/carbon monoxide.
I really want to take the bus camping during the winter, and breathing frozen air while I snore tends to give me sinus problems for some reason. I read the threads on the installed propane heaters, but I'm a little priced out on that. I already own a nice Coleman 5,000 BTU catalytic heater that uses whitegas, not propane, and I was thinking of supply and exhaust ducting so it could run while I sleep.
But, no, no coal stove in the bus...yet! |
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