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2085 cc daily driver bus motor build.
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mightymouse
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 3:26 am    Post subject: 2085 cc daily driver bus motor build. Reply with quote

I was looking at the pics tonight and figured id make a post about the engine i just finished for a local client. (friend who trusts your advice).
He has a 64 singlecab that he loves to daily drive, but has run acrossed 1 bad engine/builder after another.
So when he was shopping a new engine he spoke with me and liked what i had to say and sees all my other builds being driven not trailered to every show.
So we moved forward and this is what i put together for him.
Normally for an SA bus i would build a 2007, but in the spirit of doing something different we decided to run some of kona's AA 92 thickwalls. That coupled with the fact that CB doesnt make an even 78mm crank, i ended up with a 78.4. those 2 combined makes 2085 cc, or basically a puffy 2007 in my book...lol.
A reliable driver based Straight axle bus engine designed to take whatever you can throw at it and yet run like a stock 1600.

The list is as follows:

New AS41 case from CB: I had them NOT weld behind #3 because it does nothing but mess up the case.
8mm head studs
Full flowed
Cyl openings cut to 90.5
Stroker clearanced

Had everything balanced.

New CB super race 78.4mm 4340 crank
New Unitech performance 5.5" rods
New Cb light iron flywheel
Cb chromo gland nut
AA 92 thickwall P&C's
Cb los panchitos heads 40x35.5 dual springs
Cb super stock 1.25 rockers/shafts
Engle 120 Camshaft
Engle's new lifters
Porsche swivel feet
Cb .055 wall chromo pushrods
Berg/magnum SC cam gear set
Berg/shadek Oring 26mm oil pump
Berg full flow pump cover
Berg case hardware kit
Berg oem vw head stud kit. (never use chromoly studs for street motors)
Cb wideglide 2 qt low profile sump
Mahle cam bearings
Mahle main bearings
mahle rod bearings
CB crank racer pacer

OEM oil cooler
oem pushrod tubes
oem cylinder deflector tin
oem cylinder tin (1974 shroud and tin)
oem heater box sleds and bacon strips
oem oil filler on ARPM alt stand
oem valve covers
oem dist drive gear

Dellorto 40's with CB update kits
Cb intake manifolds port matched
Cb air filters
Berg linkage

Veedub parts unlimited 1.5" heater boxes
A1 1.5" sidewinder

Derale oil thermostat
derale oil cooler and fan
Brad penn break in oil
K&N 3001 oil filter with berg cow magnet on the side.

Sachs OEM clutch disk/sprung hub
Kennedy 1700 pressure plate

Hopefully this post will help some people to decide what to build for their buses. Any questions at all just ask. Dave Smile

I always like to start with a new case.

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Check it and make sure its all clean inside, because despite the money payed theres usually a lot of stuff left unchecked.

See all the flashing left from when it was relieved for the crank?

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I always trial fit all the bearings and mark them

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I like to clearance the back cam bearing so it doesnt cover the drainback passage, especially on a non grooved cam plug case like this one.

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I dont like to leave the original oil passage open because oil pressure will build up against the side of the oil pump inside the bore. So i plug it, AND the pump.

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This is the pump that ended up being too small, and i had to order one from berg to remedy the issue of shit quality control with the latest shadek pumps.

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I like to work on the full flow fitting till its as far in as it can go, so then i can simply dimple the tin and it fits.

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Trial fit and check every last detail. Rod bearings fit sweet and so its time to put them on their home.

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Stack the pretty gears on the crank like so

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lay all the nice parts into their cave and see if they agree with its comforts
they did not and the lifter bores were all over the place in height, thank goodness i have a good friend who's house is a machine shop, so he knocked all the lifter bores down and was amazed at how they were all at different heights.

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Check and see if we have to play "wack a mole".
Sure enough, .026 positive deck.

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sexay, kuril is green, sealing nuts are red.... christmas engine!

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Stack some shims under the barrels, and see what we get. Without custom shims i was able to get .058 deck on all 4. Set me at exactly 9 to 1 CR/7.4 dynamic CR.

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Make sure you dont forget the little deflectors. Smile

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tadaaaa!

Hi... my name is longblock.. Razz

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Add kick ass sump

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set up the rockers and set the geometry

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On the start stand going together. No pics of tin fitting, cause that part sucks and is boring but it must be perfect.

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Ready to break the cam in, just add muffler.

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We put it in 2 nights ago and i then dialed in all the extras and wired everything. Ran it in the bus, and will be driving it today 12-18-10.
Once he cleans the tin and whatnot ill get some pics and vid of it all finished and running. The sound is, mmm mmmm. Smile
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Note to EVERYONE.
Know your ZDDP levels or you WILL lose a cam and lifters.


Last edited by mightymouse on Sat Dec 18, 2010 11:05 am; edited 1 time in total
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krusher
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any plans to get a dyno graph for it so it can be seen where it makes TQ?
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 9:41 am    Post subject: Home Reply with quote

Nice motor!!! Hope it runs as good as it looks!!!
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Oldbugr
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MM I have a question for ya. You stated that the CR would be 9to1? If I put your numbers into the engine calc that John has-aircooled, it comes up with 8.6 for the CR? What do you use to fiqure your CR?? Eric
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Banzai KG
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 10:06 am    Post subject: Re: 2085 cc daily driver bus motor build. Reply with quote

mightymouse wrote:
Ran it in the bus, and will be driving it today 10-18-10.
Once he cleans the tin and whatnot ill get some pics and vid of it all finished and running. The sound is, mmm mmmm. Smile

I think you're about 2-months behind.... 10-18-10
Otherwise...very nice detailed pictures of the process! Cool
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mightymouse
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 11:04 am    Post subject: Re: 2085 cc daily driver bus motor build. Reply with quote

Banzai KG wrote:
mightymouse wrote:
Ran it in the bus, and will be driving it today 10-18-10.
Once he cleans the tin and whatnot ill get some pics and vid of it all finished and running. The sound is, mmm mmmm. Smile

I think you're about 2-months behind.... 10-18-10
Otherwise...very nice detailed pictures of the process! Cool


lol! the only typo i missed. ha! Thanks jim. hehe
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Note to EVERYONE.
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mightymouse
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oldbugr wrote:
MM I have a question for ya. You stated that the CR would be 9to1? If I put your numbers into the engine calc that John has-aircooled, it comes up with 8.6 for the CR? What do you use to fiqure your CR?? Eric


The panchitos have a step in them, late mexican style injected casting.
I had the step cut out and had exactly 55cc afterward.
So the advertised 59cc is lame, cause its 55cc chamber with some extra cc due to step/deck. The step should be cut out before they sell them, and advertise 55cc, but able to go to? test it and see with the CNC machine. Id bet they can get 62 or so safely.
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Note to EVERYONE.
Know your ZDDP levels or you WILL lose a cam and lifters.
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Oldbugr
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Happy got it!!
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mightymouse
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

krusher wrote:
Any plans to get a dyno graph for it so it can be seen where it makes TQ?


Probably at the wheels if it happens. Ill see if i can convince him to get it dynoed once its broken in. Hes a very busy guy.
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Note to EVERYONE.
Know your ZDDP levels or you WILL lose a cam and lifters.
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flyinglow94
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice to see it finely done Dave. It seems every time you turn around something wasn't right. The step in the heads, lifter bores, oil pump and the sump plate. Its all the little details that matter
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ARTIFACT
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

really fascinating post. I am a newbie who pulled my 1835 engine for the first time last night. Reading everything I can to learn on the topic of engine configurations and build.

Thanks
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mightymouse
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

flyinglow94 wrote:
Nice to see it finely done Dave. It seems every time you turn around something wasn't right. The step in the heads, lifter bores, oil pump and the sump plate. Its all the little details that matter


Yup and thanks again. It wouldnt have gone together as quickly if it wasnt for your help. Imagine having to send it back to rimco or CB each time i needed something machined... uuugh.
Instead, off to your house. Cut the heads, cut the case, put a drain plug in the ghey CB sump plate... good to go. Smile
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Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude from achieving his goal; nothing on earth can help the man with the wrong mental attitude.
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Note to EVERYONE.
Know your ZDDP levels or you WILL lose a cam and lifters.
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mightymouse
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ARTIFACT wrote:
really fascinating post. I am a newbie who pulled my 1835 engine for the first time last night. Reading everything I can to learn on the topic of engine configurations and build.

Thanks


No probs man. Anytime i can help i will. Rather its building an engine for someone, or helping them get the info they need to attempt it on their own. I enjoy all aspects of it, and love these cars/engines.
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Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude from achieving his goal; nothing on earth can help the man with the wrong mental attitude.
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Note to EVERYONE.
Know your ZDDP levels or you WILL lose a cam and lifters.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You used 5.5 rods??? My 84 stroke uses 5.5's. Especially a bus I'd try to get a short rod ratio. id rather use the Porsche length 5.352. I like to get near the 163 ratio
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MM is on the other end of the spectrum and likes to use the longest rods possible in his engines.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A+ Excellent post! That will answer a lot of questions if the right people bother to read this post and look at what you did. Sweet motor too! Congrats on going with the 92's, the endless 1915's and 2276's get to be b-o-r-i-n-g after a while. Great post, thanks Dave!
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JB weld the case halves....that'll keep the fretting to a minimum. Laughing
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice !! I wish I had gotten this kind of photographic progress when mine was being assembled Rolling Eyes
Looks great Very Happy
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NICE BUILD!!

the dynamic compression sounded funny so i calc'd it, with the 9.03 and a closing point of 72* for the 120 cam, assuming 2028 elevation for las vegas, i got 6.37 Dynamic which should be great for a bus and 87 octane as stock was 6.5 dynamic. did you calc it at sea level?
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MM does not add 15 degrees to the closing point to calculate dynamic compression so his figure will be much higher then yours.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When you said the lifter bores were wrong,
You mean they needed decked to clear the foot at full lift,
Or that they were not square to the cam bore?

What was done to them?
Sleeved?

Nice build detail shots.
I learned something!
Thanks.

P.S.
You don't like the small, 1" square plates that go under the heads?
The ones with the 4 small tabs?
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