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Pertronix 009 + Bosch Blue Coil?
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klutchking
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:15 pm    Post subject: Pertronix 009 + Bosch Blue Coil? Reply with quote

Almost everywhere I see a Pertronix 009 #D186604 distributor for sale, the detail specs says it must be used with a Pertronix Flamethrower coil. Is this true or is it just a marketing scam so people will buy their coils?? I have a Bosch Blue coil, so I am just wondering if it can be used with that distibutor.
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subibug
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the blue one is just fine.
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Bruce Amacker
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have the Pertronix 009 #D186604 in my engine, and I called Pertronix tech support to see if the BB coil will work, and they said it was fine. That was a year and a half and 4-5,000 miles ago and it runs fine. I'd suggest making sure it's a OEG BB and not a Mexican BB, which I've heard bad things about.

Did you buy the Pertronix yet? The curve on mine was REALLY terrible out of the box and needed to be recurved to make it drivable. IIRC the advance was something like 30* total starting at 2500RPM and all in by 3500+RPM. This means it ran at TDC until 2500RPM. You want to ruin how your car drives? Use a curve like that. Once I recurved it the engine ran fine.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's called marketing......

BTW, there's are a few different versions of the Bosch Blue Coil, you want the Brazilian one and not the Mexican or silver one.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bruce Amacker wrote:
Once I recurved it the engine ran fine.


Please explain how you did that. (Springs in the distributor???)
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are also different Pertronix points replacements out there. You just need to make sure the ohms on your coil match what your ignition device wants or you'll either burn them up or not have enough juice.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JasonBaker wrote:
Bruce Amacker wrote:
Once I recurved it the engine ran fine.


Please explain how you did that. (Springs in the distributor???)


I reduced the total advance by sleeving the limit stop pin with a small piece of brass tubing purchased at the local hobby shop. I also installed a lighter spring to get the advance to start earlier. Many distributors only have one advance spring installed from the factory with the “hooks” for the second spring not used. I had asked Glenn if he would recurve it but I guess he doesn't work on electronic distributors.

There's a picture in this link under "Timing is Everything":

http://www.covvc.org/technical.htm
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure which BB I have. Im sure between the two I have, one of them is Brazilian. So why would they give that distributor that much advance if its too much? And no, I haven't bought one yet. I want an electronic ignition but the hole in my distributor where you screw down the points is stripped out. So I figured I would get two in one and go with the Flame-Thrower.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bruce Amacker wrote:
I had asked Glenn if he would recurve it but I guess he doesn't work on electronic distributors.

Actually i don't work on aluminum distributors.

Playing with the springs and stops will give unpredictable results and without a distributor machine, it's a crap shoot.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glenn wrote:
Bruce Amacker wrote:
I had asked Glenn if he would recurve it but I guess he doesn't work on electronic distributors.

Actually i don't work on aluminum distributors.

Playing with the springs and stops will give unpredictable results and without a distributor machine, it's a crap shoot.


Crap shoot it is, as I obviously don't have a distributor machine. Luckily it's easy to R&R a VW distributor, once you have the tools there and stuff you can yank the unit, pull the advance plate and change the spring or bend the stop quickly. I remember buying a GM HEI recurve kit that day and stretching some springs by hand, I really don't remember what spring I ended up using right now. There's an access window in the side, too, that they probably use at the factory. Once you're "cruising", it was probably only 10 minutes to R&R and adjust things. I think I did it a few times (4-5?) before I was happy with the curve but it sure would have been easier with a machine.....!

I did recheck the curve earlier this year to make sure it didn't move any and it was fine.

klutchking wrote:
So why would they give that distributor that much advance if its too much?


I feel it's shitty shoddy workmanship, another example of "If you want it done right, do it yourself". I really was fuming mad when I first put it in, watched the advance, and drove it. It ran F'ing terrible. I remember telling one of my buddies that &%$#! thing was going to end up on Ebay. Once I cooled off and recurved it, it actually runs very nice and has given me no problems. I wanted a relatively stock looking distributor, not one of those large body monsters. I would have gone Pertronix cast SVDA if I could have talked Art into putting a venturi vacuum port on my Zenith, but he was having no part of it (and I can't blame him). In my opinion some extra advance at part throttle cruise would help economy and response.

If you're not comfortable messing with the advance, buy one from Glenn. At least it will be "what it's supposed to be".

KK, what carb(s) are you running?

Good Luck!

Edit: here's an old pic from the archives:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
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[email protected]
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you coulda' bought our SVDA, much nicer.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[email protected] wrote:
you coulda' bought our SVDA, much nicer.


Oh, well, live and learn. I probably should have looked into your units but that was a couple of years ago, and I'm older and wiser now. Confused It doesn't matter who's SVDA I buy, without a vacuum port on my carb I'm kinda SOL. Very Happy

KK, you should look into John's distributors, too, support those people who support this forum. I'm sure both John and Glenn would stand behind their products better than anyone else.

Good Luck!
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh yeah you got that old skool carb Embarassed
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bruce Amacker wrote:

KK, what carb(s) are you running?



Its a Solex 30/31PICT for now with a 1600DP. Im about to have a 2110cc with dual 44's.


So is it all of the pertronix distributors that will require a recurve? Or is it hit and miss? It seems like if it was a big problem then they wouldn't be sold, unless there is something im missing here. I thought they were plug and play distributors.

Sorry for my ignorance, i'm just trying to understand it all. Confused
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's all dependent on Chinese quality control....

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dale M. wrote:
It's all dependent on Chinese quality control....

Dale



But they are made in the US.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glenn wrote:
Bruce Amacker wrote:
I had asked Glenn if he would recurve it but I guess he doesn't work on electronic distributors.

Actually i don't work on aluminum distributors.

Playing with the springs and stops will give unpredictable results and without a distributor machine, it's a crap shoot.
these dist .are easy to pull,and the dist machine may be a crap shoot also. set it up in a machine put it back in car try it.is it perfect??probably not,is it close?might be. you can do the same with out one.it just might take a little longer if you dont have experance doing it. I have done more in the machine that out of the machine. but the ones I did out of the machine were no better than the machine set up units.the machine isant majic, just a fancy spin jig.yes it,s helpfull and less bending over, sometimes. on the other hand the dist still needs to be pulled in most cases,but not all. a well curved dist can make a beast feal like a kitten till you want the beast. and can give the kitten some claws. and in most cases the springs & stops are predictable as to what will happen .as to how much that takes experance.if you have a 1/2 " addvance slot with 30 deg addvance it dosent take a rocket pilot to figure out if you want 20 deg of addvance to limit 1/3 of it. but witch end do you limit? that can depend on the spring or 's and just what you want your curve to do. there are so many ways to skin a catfish. the end result is dinner.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

99.99999% of all 009's are not worth installing on an engine unless you plan on a simple idle/WOT and nothing in-between.

It'll cost more, but at the very least, source a used 050, the advance curve at least isn't an on/off switch.

Best, get a rebuilt real '022' if you don't have a vac port on the carb.

Some of the best units I've used have been from 1.8 L-Jet T4 engines. They have a really good curve for daily driving and you have the option of both adv and retard ports on the dist.

Don't buy the 009, stumble, stumble, stumble, over advance knock ping, finally catch up to RPM's. Junk.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Root_Werks wrote:
99.99999% of all 009's are not worth installing on an engine unless you plan on a simple idle/WOT and nothing in-between.

It'll cost more, but at the very least, source a used 050, the advance curve at least isn't an on/off switch.

Best, get a rebuilt real '022' if you don't have a vac port on the carb.

Some of the best units I've used have been from 1.8 L-Jet T4 engines. They have a really good curve for daily driving and you have the option of both adv and retard ports on the dist.

Don't buy the 009, stumble, stumble, stumble, over advance knock ping, finally catch up to RPM's. Junk.

The 050 is the "Porsche 009". It's designed for the 914/T4 engine and isn't much better that a German 009.

The 022 is designed for the Porsche 356 engine and has 32 degrees advance, so to limit the total to 32 you'll need 0 initial advance.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just read this on CIP1 about their vacuum advance SVDA distributor:


This distributor WILL NOT work properly with aftermarket carburetion systems unless a correct vacuum port is installed into one of the carburetors. DO NOT TRY THIS YOURSELF, only an expert with proper experience on the brand of carburetor you have will be able to tell you if this can be done, and how to do this. Any engine with a large duration cam shaft will not have sufficient vacuum at idle to make the vacuum advance distributor work correctly.





Im about to put a performance motor and dual 44 carbs in the bug. Does that mean i'm going to need to put a 009 in the car being the carbs won't have a vac port?
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