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JonF Samba Member
Joined: December 16, 2005 Posts: 2030 Location: Oklahoma
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Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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bajaherbie wrote: |
ceramic coated empi with a short silencer of some sort. i shortened the u-bend a few inches and made a short tab to hold the muffler to the rear cage to relieve the stress from the weight of it.
several years ago i had a 40 hp engine with dual cannon exhaust... changed it out to a tri-mill style and it was like the horsepower doubled! |
how is the ceramic holding up? also is the coating just on the outside of the tubes or also coated on the inside also? _________________ 68 bug 1600sp 30/31
68 baja 1600sp 010 32ndix |
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TrikeKid Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2008 Posts: 153 Location: Roy, WA
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Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:58 am Post subject: |
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JonF wrote: |
thats good to know about the back pressure. i had always thought low back pressure was good thing because exhaust systems descriptions talk about lower back pressure. |
Back pressure isn't really it so much as it is velocity. Dual cannons have a few problems. First, the exhaust run is really short, this hurts your torque, kinda like running a shorty header vs. long tubes on a V8. The 2nd, is that they dump into a relatively large pipe, which slows the exhaust down, letting the pulses fight each other and actually restrict flow.
On my car I went from a short tubed street header and quiet pack (with the muffler turned up vertical, didn't have the budget for a proper exhaust at the time) to the one I posted a pic of, and I picked up a bunch of torque and power. Dragging those 31's up to 60 comes much easier now. _________________ '74 Baja - The Snowagen
'88 Suzuki Samurai - The endless project
That'll buff out... with a sawzall. |
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bajaherbie Samba Sooner
Joined: November 27, 2003 Posts: 2985 Location: altus, oklahoma
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Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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JonF wrote: |
bajaherbie wrote: |
ceramic coated empi with a short silencer of some sort. i shortened the u-bend a few inches and made a short tab to hold the muffler to the rear cage to relieve the stress from the weight of it.
several years ago i had a 40 hp engine with dual cannon exhaust... changed it out to a tri-mill style and it was like the horsepower doubled! |
how is the ceramic holding up? also is the coating just on the outside of the tubes or also coated on the inside also? |
i bought it used but it hadn't been used much at all. i keep my car in my shop so it it out of the weather, that might have something to do with it lasting. occasionally i polish it with Flitz to make it look better. as far as i can tell the coating is only on the outside.... _________________ blank |
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carlos_magnum Samba Member
Joined: April 21, 2009 Posts: 591
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Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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tanner_122 wrote: |
heres mine an old SS
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I like the setup of the exhaust pointing outside the cage. |
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Blu Bug Samba Member
Joined: September 12, 2006 Posts: 522 Location: Sacramento, California
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Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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carlos_magnum wrote: |
tanner_122 wrote: |
heres mine an old SS
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I like the setup of the exhaust pointing outside the cage. |
Not a good setup around kids. A hot piece of metal with nothing between little people and the branding iron. |
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joescoolcustoms Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2006 Posts: 9054 Location: West By God Virginia
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Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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I have read a lot of mistakes about header performance in this thread.
If all you are looking for is to stick an exhaust on a engine and have ground clearance, pick any you see on this thread. If you are looking for a performance enhancing exhaust, get a true equal length, 4 into 1 in sequence header.
The dual cannons perform worse than the 4 into 1 system because they lack a true scavenge effect making it hard to tune a dual set of carbs or an engine with a longer duration cam.
The tubes need to be the same length to be a true header. The length of the tube helps effect where the torque band is, somewhat. It will move it about 200 RPM's up or down. The shorter the primary tube, the higher the torque band.
Now the scavenging effect is a little harder to grasp. Scavenging effect is when the exhaust leaves the head port and creates a vacumn on the engine port which helps start pulling the intake charge into the cylinder when the two valves are open when overlapping as the exhaust valve is shutting and the intake valve is opening. To get this scavenging effect the primary tubes should all come together into the collector in firing order sequence. In sequence means that if you look into the collector and see the primary tubes, they should fire in a order that creates a circle effect which will even pressure and create a vortex that enhances the vacumn pulled on each tube. Only the higher quality header makers take the time to get this right. The scavenging effect in the cylinder also pulls some of the new intake charge past the exhaust valve giving a cooling effect on the valve, helping longevity and performance.
The reason the dual cannons perform less than the 4 into 1 headers is the fact that when firing, the cannons fire two cylinders next to each other and than pause for two cylinders to fire on the other side. (firing order of 1432 is really 43, 21, 43, 21....) This fire, fire, wait, wait slows down the exhaust, intrupting the scavenging effect and gives a horrible pulse effect to dual carbs.
Coating the header makes a performance enhancement too. The ceramic coatings were developed to hold the heat in the tube, not for corrosion resistance and looks, at first. The coating keeps the exhaust heat in the exhaust. This is important because as a gas cools, it shrinks. When it shrinks in the header primary tube, it looses velocity slowing down. Slowing down exhaust looses some of the scavenging effect. Maintaining the velocity of the exhaust gas is the main reason for the ceramic coatings.
So, if your head hurts after reading my babble, I understand.
The key points about a header are:
1. They are primarily to create scavenging on the cylinders
2. True headers have equal length primary tubes
3. Best headers are 4 into 1 and fire in a circle sequence in the collector
4. Coatings help the heat to stay in the exhaust gas and increase the scavenging effect _________________ Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race
Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.
Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone |
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tanner_122 Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2009 Posts: 1224 Location: Norco CA
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Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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Blu Bug wrote: |
carlos_magnum wrote: |
tanner_122 wrote: |
heres mine an old SS
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I like the setup of the exhaust pointing outside the cage. |
Not a good setup around kids. A hot piece of metal with nothing between little people and the branding iron. |
i dont like kids that will teach them not to touch my car _________________ 91 jeep Cherokee "TANK" |
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JonF Samba Member
Joined: December 16, 2005 Posts: 2030 Location: Oklahoma
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Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 4:16 am Post subject: |
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what about the bobtail style exhaust? anyone run one? or got a photo of one? _________________ 68 bug 1600sp 30/31
68 baja 1600sp 010 32ndix |
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sloboatnova Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2009 Posts: 989 Location: Broken Arrow, Ok
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Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 6:43 am Post subject: |
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Blu Bug wrote: |
carlos_magnum wrote: |
tanner_122 wrote: |
heres mine an old SS
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I like the setup of the exhaust pointing outside the cage. |
Not a good setup around kids. A hot piece of metal with nothing between little people and the branding iron. |
Plus, if you play in the woods like I do, you want something that can be protected in case you have to back up into trees. After reading this thread, I'm ready to try something different then my dual cannon (or what ever it's called) exhaust. But I still want something compact that I can protect with my bumper. _________________ Ms Hoover, I glued my head to my shoulder.
3BT Baja build page
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=417564&highlight=3bt+baja |
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Blu Bug Samba Member
Joined: September 12, 2006 Posts: 522 Location: Sacramento, California
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Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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[/img]
Here's my exhaust. I tucked it away behind my bumper cage to keep it out of harms way and to keep people from being burned. |
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kyle_pc_75 Samba Member
Joined: November 26, 2008 Posts: 511 Location: Park City, UT, USA
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Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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Simple, out of the way:
Nevermind that this is a carnage pic:
Kyle |
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thefladge Samba Member
Joined: July 25, 2005 Posts: 1290 Location: Anaheim, CA
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Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 10:10 am Post subject: |
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This is the best picture I could find of my exhaust system. It's an S&S Headers Baja exhaust. The muffler is safe inside the bumper cage, although the cage was removed at the time I took this picture.
This is a picture is from a year or so back. I've removed the Zenith carb and installed dual 40 IDFs since then.
_________________ 1957 Vintage Baja Bug.
2110cc engine, 40 IDF Webers on Gene Berg manifolds, Engle 110 cam, Bugpack 40×35.5 Street Pro Heads, W8CC plugs, 12.5 pound Flywheel, Kennedy 1700 pound pressure plate. |
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2RL Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2010 Posts: 177
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Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:08 am Post subject: |
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not exactly the greatest photo of an exhaust system here.... but you get the idea . its a quiet pack with spark arrestor. |
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ugly buggy Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2006 Posts: 47
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Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:29 am Post subject: |
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[/img] |
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ugly buggy Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2006 Posts: 47
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Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:39 am Post subject: |
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Here's another view
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bad69baja Samba Member
Joined: June 18, 2008 Posts: 57 Location: Loganville, GA
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Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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JonF Samba Member
Joined: December 16, 2005 Posts: 2030 Location: Oklahoma
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Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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ugly buggy is that a sidewinder? _________________ 68 bug 1600sp 30/31
68 baja 1600sp 010 32ndix |
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bajaherbie Samba Sooner
Joined: November 27, 2003 Posts: 2985 Location: altus, oklahoma
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Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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looks like a sidewinder with a custom u-bend(big) and a magnaflow? muffler.. _________________ blank |
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ugly buggy Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2006 Posts: 47
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Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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bajaherbie & JonF,
If your asking is it a Manx Sidewinder ... nope
We ended up with with a few of these units that were a marketing test. The one in the pics was shortened just before the collector. The unit is not tuned in that it's not sequential with the firing order. That's a SS 2.25" tube in to a 2.25 "Hushpower SS" muffler. It gives the setup a deep mellow tune.
MnC |
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aircooled356 Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2006 Posts: 500 Location: Yosemite, CA
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Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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How about this?
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