Loss of power

[andrewsanteiro]

Ok, so the engine is a 1600dp recent rebuild with 110 compression to all 4 cylinders. 34-pict3 german rebuilt from keifernet. Timing is 28 degrees advanced at 2500+rpms. Points new and adjusted. Valves .006 all the way around. 31" tires in the rear. Gas in the tank.

I drive it around the block a few times just fine cold and warm. BUT when I got it on the open road and try to open her up shifting into 4th at around 45mph, shortly after I experience a loss of power to the foot... I can find throttle again by backing way off the throttle and giving it a minimal amount of throttle. Then, the same is true for the lower gears after reaching this 'point' where I basically don't get anything out of any gear unless I'm crawling.

Thought I would also add that the first time I tried driving this thing at speed I was out for about 5 minutes and when I got back there was gas bubbling in the carb. So I read about vapor lock, loosened the gas cap, then put it back on and haven't seen bubbles since......? Also, the car seems to be starved of gas at start up now which requires me to pump the peddle and rev it at first to start it...

Any suggestions?
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On the road. Thanks to the Samba!
72' 1600cc Baja Bug

[Rob Timmons]

Check your fuel pump for flow. Maybe a partially plugged gas line and starving for gas.

[wampe]

Sounds like a fuel flow problem to me too. Maybe a stuck float in the carb or the float not adjusted correctly or some crap in the needle valve seat.

[mondshine]

You are geared pretty high with 31" tires, considering the stock diameter is close to 25.5". (a 20% difference)
You might not have the power to turn those big tires.

[wampe]

Good point about the tire size. You'll have to wind the engine higher than normal before the up-shift with those big tires. I'd put the correct size back on.

[andrewsanteiro]

Yea it just acts like it's running out of gas.... then gives you a little power.... then it cuts back out...

I am skeptical whether tire size is the culprit here or not. No doubt a contribution to a lack of power off the top end but the way it just loses reaction to the foot..

I need to get a low pressure fuel pressure gauge. and check what I'm getting through the lines.

I discovered some JB weld holding on the vacuum line off the top of the diaphram that had come loose. The piping was still holding on but didn't seem to be holding vacuum after looking under the cap. This means I will be getting another diaphram I assume. Could this make sense for when really opening up and advancing that its then falling off because its not holding pressure and thus losing timing and killing engine functionality?
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72' 1600cc Baja Bug

[Lotrat]

I have a older 1600DP and it turns the 31's just fine. 75mph down the freeway without much effort. Do you have a freeway flyer tranny? If so, you'll only get up to 35-40mph. Your issue sounds like a lean condition or vacuum leak to me.

[andrewsanteiro]

I opened a bunch of searches and pages to read through about the vacuum canister as I am suspect of it. My numbers are 07059 579 that I am looking for to match my distributor 0231170036, but I pulled off a canister with number 535 on the arm.

Should I be chasing down the correct canister or getting one 'that works' or what?
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On the road. Thanks to the Samba!
72' 1600cc Baja Bug

[ashman40]

Dirty fuel filter restricting flow at extended high rpm driving? Or dirt in the fuel bowl blocking off the main jet or circuit?
_________________
AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!}

[andrewsanteiro]

So in this quest to find my issue, I stumbled upon the fitting holding the vacuum line off the top of the vacuum canister was rather loose, had JB weld on it, and was NOT holding vacuum.

Guessing that the JB weld was obviously there for 'some good reason' I scraped it all off, sanded down the canister and re-applied JB weld around the fitting to secure it and to clog the vacuum leak occurring. The canister now holds pressure, so I went to re-install it onto the body of the distributor when I LOST THE CIRCLIP holding the arm to the advance plate.

WHERE CAN I GET ANOTHER CIRCLIP TO FIT?

After completely re-installing this, and re-checking timing and carb adjustments, I hope it will solve my issue. If not I will be looking toward fuel pressure, clogging, etc.
_________________
On the road. Thanks to the Samba!
72' 1600cc Baja Bug

[Rob Timmons]

You might be able to get one at your local hardware store if they have a good selection. Maybe a lowes even.

[Paul Windisch]

Start running a STRONG magnet around the area in which you were working. It couldn't have gone TOO far! Otherwise, measure the pin diameter and get an E-clip from the hardware store.
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[andrewsanteiro]

I heard it hit the cooling tin, then the floor, but after about 20 minutes of scouring the area, I've come to the conclusion that its disappearance is suspect of spontaneous combustion. Or its hiding under 20 years of hoarding in my girlfriends families warehouse which is my wrenching area.

E clip. diameter of the shaft. got it.
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On the road. Thanks to the Samba!
72' 1600cc Baja Bug

[andrewsanteiro]

Alright, so the E clip was snapped on, the vacuum holding, reset points gap at 50 degrees, timing full advance, idle adjustment.

First dumb question: 34-pict-3 carb timed at 28 degrees full advance should be done with the vacuum hose ON or OFF AND PLUGGED?

Secondly: I believe I solved the 'loss of power' issue by fixing the leak at the vacuum canister, but I am still struggling to maintain power through 4th gear... 3rd will take me up past 50 mph with seemingly no problem, but once I'm into 4th, I can't seem to gain any further power. It just sits at around 50-55 mph. Best I had on a test run was 60+ mph on a downhill half mile+ run.

again I'm running 31" tires on what I believe is a stock tranny, and as I understand the gearing is off, but should it really be robbing that much power off the top to not allow me to go over 50-55 mph? Or can anyone think of ANOTHER POSSIBLE CULPRIT TO MY LACK OF 4th GEAR POWER?? (i.e. was I suppose to plug the vacuum line when I timed it.... fuel pump?)
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On the road. Thanks to the Samba!
72' 1600cc Baja Bug

[ashman40]

Timing is based on the distributor model. So which model # do you have?

Normally, vacuum advance distributors (SVDA or DVDA) are timed at idle.

SVDAs are timed at idle with vacuum advance plugged.

DVDAs are timed at idle with all hoses connected and all vacuum canisters retard/advance working properly.

Look up your distributor model here and see the timing directions:
http://www.oldvolkshome.com/ignition.htm

The 009 (mechanical advance only distributor) has such a wide range of advance curves (inconsistent manufacturing) that you want to set timing based on the max advance so you don't detonate your engine!
But since your distributor has a vacuum canister, it can't be a 009, can it?
_________________
AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!}

[andrewsanteiro]

No its's not a 009. It is: Beetle 1974 * 1600 Federal Auto-Stick Trans

Distributor: VW 043-905-205A, Bosch 0231 170 036
Can Use:
Points: 01 011
Condensor: 02 074
Rotor: 04 033
Dust Cover: 039-905-241, Bosch 1230 500 139 > 1230 500 147
Cap: 03 010
Distributor Cap Clip: 034-905-265, Bosch 1231 251 033
Parts Kit (Shims, Washers & Hardware): 059-998-211, Bosch 1237 010 007
Coil: 00 015 (Blue Coil: 00 012)
Vacuum Can: 07 059
Ignition Wires: 09 001
Spark Plug: W8AC
Timing Set At:: 7.5deg BTDC @ 800-950rpm w/ strobe and w/single vacuum hose disconnected and plugged
Advance/Retard Range: Vacuum: 8-12deg Adv; Centrifugal: 13-15deg @ 2300rpm, 22-25deg @ 3800rpm

I was advised by my local vw mechanic to be timing it 28 degrees full advance, but I geuss I could give these figures a try... I know that with the hoses attached had I tried and timing it, like stated above, at 7.5 BTDC, it would have stumbled and died. So, I'll go out now and try to time it this new spec at idle and plugged and see what comes of it. And just to be clear here, the Advance/ Retard Range stated above, should this be checked WITH the hoses or WITHOUT and plugged?
_________________
On the road. Thanks to the Samba!
72' 1600cc Baja Bug

[andrewsanteiro]

So today I went through the entire fuel system checking all the hoses, metal lines, fuel coming straight out of the tank, filters, etc,etc,etc, float bowl and valve, pilot jet (which is now just a crack open to help increase rpm a tid bit, which also helped with the feeling of the engine missing while trying to give it some..aka a stuttering.), but to no avail. I still could not go over 55mph in 4th. 3rd gear would take me to the stars if I asked it to, but 4th, not happening.
I've tried different shift speeds from 40-55 from 3rd into 4th, but should I really even have to wind it up to 55mph (which is probably slightly off low as to the slightly larger front wheels connected to the speedometer cable anyway) just to continue going up in 4th should I? I mean I get nothing in 4th downhill. Am I asking it for too much fuel I ask myself? Rediculous obviously the car was made to work. Oh, but silly Brazilian parts have been installed...

I did not today locate a fuel pressure gauge at any of the auto parts stores in the area for loan. And the pump is my main suspect at the moment as I have done an entire tune up, and then done it differently, and then done it again. I feel like I'm running in circles around the fuel pump(Brazilian). I also checked the push rod height, 1/2" up, and whatever the right amount for down was down(per manual spec). umm... They want $40 for the gauge, and I see a fuel pump on the classifieds $25+ shipping. Anyone else have a late model German fuel pump they can part with? I think there's a swap meet in the area on Saturday. Nice lady said she'd been watching me, creepy, jk, tinkering on the car inside the bay doors and test driving around the industrial park, but never had time to stop, but finally did today, and I guess she sets up small VW get-togethers, shows, drives, etc. Thank you for welcoming me into VW world. She said my car was cool. I can now officially beat it up. Anyway, so there may be a pump there I can trade some junk for, or barter for, or pay for...
_________________
On the road. Thanks to the Samba!
72' 1600cc Baja Bug

[ashman40]

Just so you know... 4th gear in VW transmissions are an overdrive gear (less than a 1:1 ratio). They would be similar to 5th gear in a 5-speed transmission (typically 4th gear on US cars is a 1:1 ratio). My point is, it is a cruising-only gear. Your taller than normal tires have turned it into an even taller final gear (even MORE overdrive). The terms don't really apply to VWs but I hope you get the idea.

What is the engine RPMs when you shift from 3rd to 4th?


Your concerns over the fuel pump could be checked by looking at the fuel level in the carb bowl when it starts to act funny.
Drive it around in a low gear until it starts to sputter... then immediately kill the ignition and step in the clutch. DO NOT let it idle.
Coast over to the side of the road and pull the top off the carb. Check the fuel level in the bowl. It should normally be around 3/4" from the top on a stock Solex carb. Much lower than this and you have a fuel delivery problem. Might be the pump, but could be clogged lines too.
_________________
AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!}

[andrewsanteiro]

I appreciate the reply. The stuttering has seemed to go away after fixing the vacuum leak on the vacuum canister and opening the pilot jet roughly a quarter turn. My main issue now is the inability to get up to speed once shifting into 4th. I'm going to give it a few more test runs shifting from 3rd into 4th and pay attention to the rpms rather than the speed. What sort of rpm should I be looking out for. By this I mean, how high up can I safely rev it before shifting into 4th.

I think in my previous tests, I was pushing at about 3400rpm when shifting into 4th.

and btw: I checked every line and hose in the fuel system, and have no obstructions.
_________________
On the road. Thanks to the Samba!
72' 1600cc Baja Bug

[Marcusft]

This kind of problem recently started with my rebuilt 1600 '74 super. The car was driving great for a week after getting it re-built and put back together until a couple days ago.
The car sputtered and kicked a couple of times and acted as if it were running out of gas. We pulled the car over and took a look but couldn't see anything out of the ordinary. After this happened the car has felt starved of gas and has needed the throttle to be pumped a couple times before it will start up. The car has an electric fuel pump.
I drove it yesterday around the block and didn't notice any issue in 1st and 2nd gear. So I attempted a longer drive. 3rd gear had no power and 4th was even worse. A hill brought me down to 2nd gear and the car barely made it to the top. I drove the hill prior to the current problem and was able to accelerate the entire climb making it up the hill at 60mph no problem.
I am a novice when it comes to trouble shooting and fixing problems that are deeper than surface level. I am going to check the vacuum seal, fuel line, and fuel pump today.
Any helpful tips would be great.