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Vipraxay Samba Member
Joined: February 23, 2022 Posts: 17 Location: Šibensko-kninska
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Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2022 10:27 am Post subject: Unable to bleed front breaks |
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Hello, i started working on my '74. 1200J beetle. We changed everything concerning the brake system (new break pads, cylinders, master cylinder, pipes...), the problem occured when we first replaced the small wheel cylinders, we tried to air it out but it turned out that the master cylinder was faulty so we bought a new one. When it got mounted we tried bleeding out our brakes, the rear ones bleed just fine, but when we start with the front ones everything is going good up until we bleed it, then the pedal drops as if there is no oil inside, there is air inside the oil that came out and the pedal becomes really soft. If i don't start pumping right away and just leave the pedal for maybe 10-15 seconds there is resistance in it, as if the oil is not filling the chambers really good, but if i start pumping right away i get resistance on the pedal again, so we get stuck in a loop of not being able to bleed them properly. So, any advice maybe on what we could do?
Thank you
edit: I tried tightening all my brakes, there is always enough oil at every point of bleeding, we go at the right order (rear right, rear left, front right, front left), the little piston behind the pedal is also adjusted correctly. |
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Brian Samba Moderator
Joined: May 28, 2012 Posts: 8340 Location: Oceanside
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Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2022 10:56 am Post subject: Re: Unable to bleed front breaks |
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First off, I know you're not putting engine oil in your brake system. We just call it brake fluid.
What is your method of bleeding the brakes? It might be worth using a vacuum pump style bleeder to suck the brake fluid through the small cylinder at the wheels. _________________ Wash your hands
'69 Bug
'68 Baja Truck
'71 Bug
'68 Camper
Only losers litter |
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Vipraxay Samba Member
Joined: February 23, 2022 Posts: 17 Location: Šibensko-kninska
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Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2022 11:17 am Post subject: Re: Unable to bleed front breaks |
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Yes, sorry english is not my first language, we call it "oil" .
Well, the method is rather old fashioned, pumping the brakes and releasing it down on the brake nipple until there is no more air bubbles in there, while constantly checking the fluid levels. |
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heimlich VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016 Posts: 6558 Location: Houston, Texas
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Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2022 12:43 pm Post subject: Re: Unable to bleed front breaks |
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You should not pump the brake. This creates air bubbles in the lines. Have someone sit inside while you go to all wheels and open each line. Do it twice.
You may need to bleed the rear brakes again. The issue may be there. Otherwise, maybe you have an issue in your lines. Check all the hard lines. Look for leaks inside the car too. I found one under my seat once. _________________ www.vwnos.com [email protected]
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Vipraxay Samba Member
Joined: February 23, 2022 Posts: 17 Location: Šibensko-kninska
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Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2022 2:49 pm Post subject: Re: Unable to bleed front breaks |
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heimlich wrote: |
You should not pump the brake. This creates air bubbles in the lines. Have someone sit inside while you go to all wheels and open each line. Do it twice.
You may need to bleed the rear brakes again. The issue may be there. Otherwise, maybe you have an issue in your lines. Check all the hard lines. Look for leaks inside the car too. I found one under my seat once. |
I should try that, i know that on other cars you usually do pump the brakes so the fluid moves around, first time working on a beetle. Could you maybe describe it a little more in detail, do i press the brake down and then just unscrew the little nipples, or dont press it?
And regarding the lines, im not sure if its the problem, because the rear ones work just fine, its the front ones that are the problem, and the front lines are all good |
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heimlich VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016 Posts: 6558 Location: Houston, Texas
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Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2022 2:59 pm Post subject: Re: Unable to bleed front breaks |
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Vipraxay wrote: |
I should try that, i know that on other cars you usually do pump the brakes so the fluid moves around, first time working on a beetle. Could you maybe describe it a little more in detail, do i press the brake down and then just unscrew the little nipples, or dont press it?
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I ask for my wife's help. She sits in the car. I ask her to press and she presses and holds the pedal. I let the air out and then close it. I then let her know I am done and she releases the pedal. I do this until I only see liquid coming out. I go around the car twice doing this. _________________ www.vwnos.com [email protected]
Classic Brands. Classic Quality.
Not all parts are made the same. NOS OE/OEM parts made mainly in West Germany, Early Germany, and Early Brazil are where VW produced the best quality parts and best fitting products.
5% Off your order with coupon code: 5%OFF
Restored Distributors Available (<--Click here) |
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Vipraxay Samba Member
Joined: February 23, 2022 Posts: 17 Location: Šibensko-kninska
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Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2022 3:44 pm Post subject: Re: Unable to bleed front breaks |
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heimlich wrote: |
Vipraxay wrote: |
I should try that, i know that on other cars you usually do pump the brakes so the fluid moves around, first time working on a beetle. Could you maybe describe it a little more in detail, do i press the brake down and then just unscrew the little nipples, or dont press it?
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I ask for my wife's help. She sits in the car. I ask her to press and she presses and holds the pedal. I let the air out and then close it. I then let her know I am done and she releases the pedal. I do this until I only see liquid coming out. I go around the car twice doing this. |
Thank you, i'll try it tomorrow and let you know if it worked. |
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Tim Donahoe Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2012 Posts: 11739 Location: Redding, CA
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Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2022 5:12 pm Post subject: Re: Unable to bleed front breaks |
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I don’t know about European Beetles, but in the U.S.A., we got dual master cylinders. That means, you start bleeding the front brakes, then do the rear brakes. It’s just the opposite of bleeding the earlier Beetles.
Tim _________________ Let's do the Time Warp again!
Richard O'Brien |
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viiking Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2013 Posts: 2666 Location: Sydney Australia
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Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2022 6:33 pm Post subject: Re: Unable to bleed front breaks |
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Tim Donahoe wrote: |
I don’t know about European Beetles, but in the U.S.A., we got dual master cylinders. That means, you start bleeding the front brakes, then do the rear brakes. It’s just the opposite of bleeding the earlier Beetles.
Tim |
Yes! Start with the front first. RF,LF,RR,LR. Even if it is fitted with discs or drums! _________________ 1968 1500 RHD Lotus White Beetle since birth. In the hospital for major surgery
1966 Lancia Flavia Pininfarina Coupe - in the waiting room
Discharged: 1983 Vanagon, 1974 1800 Microbus,1968 Low Light,1968 Type 3 |
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ept000 Samba Member
Joined: October 26, 2021 Posts: 79 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2022 11:19 am Post subject: Re: Unable to bleed front breaks |
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I just dealt with a very similar issue on my 71 Super. I replaced every part, but the system would not bleed properly. Turns out the the two metal tubes running from the reservoir down to the master were heavily corroded on the inside and all the junk flowed into the new master cylinder and destroyed it. Because it took me a bit to figure that out I pumped all that garbage down into the wheel cylinders as well. I ended up replacing everything again and replaced the two metal tubes with hose that was specifically made for connecting master cylinders to reservoirs. All good now. |
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Vipraxay Samba Member
Joined: February 23, 2022 Posts: 17 Location: Šibensko-kninska
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Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2022 10:13 am Post subject: Re: Unable to bleed front breaks |
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Just to let everyone know, we managed to make it work. We combined the techniques you all provided, took apart the master cylinder checked if everything was alright, cleaned the pipes, and then when bleeding, pressed the pedal, opened the nipple (while keeping the pedal pressed), tightening the nipple and then SLOWLY releasing the pedal. Did this until there was no more air bubbles, went around the car twice to be sure. The order of bleeding went: FR, FL, RR, RL.
Thank you everyone for the help, hope this helps someone else in the future |
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Tim Donahoe Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2012 Posts: 11739 Location: Redding, CA
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Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2022 6:07 pm Post subject: Re: Unable to bleed front breaks |
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Vipraxay, I’m glad you were able to fix your problem. And your English is quite good, especially for a second language.
Show us a photo of your Beetle when you get the time.
Tim _________________ Let's do the Time Warp again!
Richard O'Brien |
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Vipraxay Samba Member
Joined: February 23, 2022 Posts: 17 Location: Šibensko-kninska
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Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2022 8:55 am Post subject: Re: Unable to bleed front breaks |
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Tim Donahoe wrote: |
Vipraxay, I’m glad you were able to fix your problem. And your English is quite good, especially for a second language.
Show us a photo of your Beetle when you get the time.
Tim |
Hahahahha, thank you, ill try to take some photos while its getting restored. Just need to get some good weather, its rainy these days |
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Vipraxay Samba Member
Joined: February 23, 2022 Posts: 17 Location: Šibensko-kninska
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Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2022 8:55 am Post subject: Re: Unable to bleed front breaks |
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Tim Donahoe wrote: |
Vipraxay, I’m glad you were able to fix your problem. And your English is quite good, especially for a second language.
Show us a photo of your Beetle when you get the time.
Tim |
Hahahahha, thank you, ill try to take some photos while its getting restored. Just need to get some good weather, its rainy these days |
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tripicana Samba Member
Joined: February 13, 2003 Posts: 1164 Location: colorado springs
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Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2022 11:57 am Post subject: Re: Unable to bleed front breaks |
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Another thing not mentioned, make sure there is free play at the rod that presses the master cylinder. Since you replaced the master, really important to check and make sure you are not holding the master open. Another thing some people do is adjust the brake shoes so they are locking up the drums, then bleed, then re adjust. _________________ foam cowboy hats aren't good helmets. |
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Vipraxay Samba Member
Joined: February 23, 2022 Posts: 17 Location: Šibensko-kninska
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Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2022 10:14 am Post subject: Re: Unable to bleed front breaks |
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Tim Donahoe wrote: |
Vipraxay, I’m glad you were able to fix your problem. And your English is quite good, especially for a second language.
Show us a photo of your Beetle when you get the time.
Tim |
Here you go, dont mind all the rust, paint spots and stupid decals , its still in the process of getting ready, this was a little bit of a test drive |
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