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Mist.er Samba Member
Joined: October 06, 2014 Posts: 12 Location: Snohomish
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Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 1:20 pm Post subject: 1964 on late 68 chassis wiring help! |
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Hi there everybody. First post on samba so if I'm doing it wrong kindly let me know please! So here's my dilemma, my vehicle is a 1964 body mated to a 1968(I think) chassis. I have ball joints on this car. Currently has a 1600 dp powering her. I have a rats nest of wires throughout this bug. And I'm having trouble finding out why my tail lights, brake lights, and rear turn signals don't work. I also don't have a functioning license light either(with no apparent wire to connect it to) I noticed my bug has a feature that I've never seen in any other bug which I attribute to the PO. The PO installed a power strip on the engine firewall that looks like a bracket screwed into the sheet metal that has wires screwed into it that go in different directions. Sort of a central hub to distribute power from. I know it's not stock and almost impossible to trace what goes where. My guess would be that it was a jerry rig to adapt the bodies wires to be able to work with the later style wires that came with the '68 chassis. So, basically any advice given to me on tracing circuits would be impossible to do as this is a custom wire job. Ok, so I'm leaning towards a new wiring kit for this car. Couple questions, would I purchase a kit for the 1964 or for a 1968? I'd imagine that they are different kits but not sure what the differences would be. Any ideas on what problems I'd run into as far as compatability? |
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61SNRF Samba Member
Joined: March 29, 2009 Posts: 4657 Location: Whittier 90602
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Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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90% of the wiring is used in the body for lighting and accesories, so unless you're building a full custom with all the lights, bells and whistles, I would say a new '64 harness is a good place to start. Up to '64, they are run through the roof, and '65 later they are run along the floor, so a later harness is not the best option. If you need extra wires, just tape them to the new harness during install.
The chassis has dual brake light switches, which you could ignore and only hook up one, but it's easy enough to piggy back the '64 wires in parallel for another switch.
Being a 1600 DP makes no difference in the coil and oil pressure light wiring, so adding the 12 volt voltage regulator is perhaps the only difficulty.
You can bolt the VR on the fan housing and wire it like people have done on 12 volt conversions for decades.
Here is where an Alternator is nice, you can wire those with the stock 6v generator wiring and not worry about finding a way to mount and incorporate the separate 12v VR. _________________ -Bruce
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. |
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grandpa pete Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2008 Posts: 6426 Location: St. Petersburg, FL
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Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with buying a new wiring harness ; I just put one in a 66 . The Harness would have to fit the body lighting and firewall locations and fuses . you will be better buying a 64 harness { Wolfsburg west sells wiring works harnesses $229 }
Tip ; do not pull off all the old wires ; cut them 2 inches long so you can match the old wire colors to the new harness _________________ 63 two fold rag
66 sedan delivery Type 6
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=569619&highlight=sedan+delivery |
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andk5591 Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005 Posts: 16754 Location: State College, PA
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Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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Couple things that will make your life easier or harder. If you dont need 4 ways, then I would suggest a 64 or 65 harness. You can run it back along the rockers if you use a 65 - I really dont see any other differences, but somebody please correct me if I am wrong. Assuming your tail lights are the same style as a 65 with 2 bulbs.
I back dated a 69 and used a 65 harness.
The one thing you did not mention was if you had a generator or alternator. Generators ALWAYS require an external regulator, some alternators do and some dont. Its not a big deal if you have an internally regulated alternator. Just have a couple wires you need to jump.
Wiring Works is the way to go - lots of people sell them. I disagree on cutting the existing wires so you can see the colors - the instructions in a Wiring Works kit walks you through the complete process so you dont need existing wires. I have installed a couple of their kits totally from scratch in a bare shell. You should follow the instructions to the letter. Very easy. BUT its handy to have some of the old harness to pull your wires back to the engine compartment.
Some things you shold do - use a dremel with a wire wheel to clean up any of your ground tabs and existing connections to the fuse box and switches. Make sure you use rubber grommets any place a wire passes through a hole in the metal. Run a couple extra uniquely colored wires from the front trunk at least to under the rear seat, but the engine compartment is better is case you want to add some gauges at a later time. _________________ D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
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Mist.er Samba Member
Joined: October 06, 2014 Posts: 12 Location: Snohomish
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Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you everybody! So It looks like I can choose how the main bunch will run through my car, either roofline or floor, depending on the year of kit I purchase. Would my headliner be toast while installing along the roof, or am I able to just pull it back slightly and reattach afterwards? I ask because it seems it would be easier to run along the floor. By the way I have a 12v system with regulator installed under back seat. |
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grandpa pete Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2008 Posts: 6426 Location: St. Petersburg, FL
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61SNRF Samba Member
Joined: March 29, 2009 Posts: 4657 Location: Whittier 90602
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Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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No need to touch the headliner, the harness goes through the body panel cavity behind it.
Have a close look at your car to see where it enters and exits the body front and back, and take the dome light out and put your finger in and down to feel it...
http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/wolfsburg_new/electrical/bug_electrical_2/wiring_harness.cfm
In theory not too hard to run a new one through the roof, you fish them in and out similar to how an electrician runs wire through conduit.
Some people do report issues of getting them stuck or hung up making the pull. The inside of the body where it runs is typically all rusty and full of jagged edges that can snag on the soft vinyl sheathing.
Preparation, patience and perseverance is the key
True, along the floor is how they did '65-up, but they also made a few changes to the body and floor pan to accommodate.
Nothing major you can't overcome, but if you really want to change the car over, I'd strongly suggest you look a later model (essentially any late model Bug past '65) over first to give you an idea of the scope of work involved.
A few highlights off the top of my head include...
1-Where it enters at the front is near the fuel tank mount above your left foot, so there is a ~1" hole to drill and subsequent grommet to tend to.
2-As it comes down inside, so it doesn't stick up too high and get abraded on the heater channel hump, there is a tubular conduit in the channel for it to pass through.
3-There are 5-7 small holes in the heater channels for clips that hold the harness tight to the side, again to keep them tucked safely to the side.
4-There is another ~1" hole to drill and grommet to source under the rear seat where it exits the cabin and goes up the rear fender arch to meet the same cavity towards the engine as a '64.
All in all, you have to take apart more of the interior to install a '65-up harness, and in stock configuration they both contain the same amount of wires, so make your choice _________________ -Bruce
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. |
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Mist.er Samba Member
Joined: October 06, 2014 Posts: 12 Location: Snohomish
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Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 7:14 am Post subject: |
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Wow so much good information! Never expected to wake up this morning and literally novels wrote explaining everything so thoroughly. I'll make my decision and let you all know how it went. I want to thank everyone chiming in for they're help. It's true, acvw enthusiasts really are the nicest bunch of folks around. I only hope I can be as helpfull while I venture into this new hob has everyone has been for me..... |
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grandpa pete Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2008 Posts: 6426 Location: St. Petersburg, FL
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grandpa pete Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2008 Posts: 6426 Location: St. Petersburg, FL
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Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 9:50 am Post subject: |
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It will help with your project if you download the proper wiring diagram on to a flashdrive and take it to the local office store....Thye can print it larger and laminate it .
You will be able to follow circuts with a dry erase marker . then when finished wipe clean for the next challenge
There is a great help video on wireing from " Bug Me " video,s
_________________ 63 two fold rag
66 sedan delivery Type 6
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=569619&highlight=sedan+delivery |
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