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andk5591 Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005 Posts: 16758 Location: State College, PA
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Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:29 am Post subject: Looking for the perfect buggy exhaust |
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Here's the deal - Manx clone, 1776, dual kads, mild heads, 1:25 rockers, SVDA. Runs awesome. Currently using a Thunderbird Quiet Baja (1 1/2" tubes with full sized muffler). Previously had a set of Empi Off Road Racing duals (dual cannon) on it - With baffles and glass wrapped they were ungodly loud and my low end torque was terrible.
Here's the problem - I am freshening up the buggy this year (paint, etc) and the Thunderbird is showing its age, plus there is too much hanging off the back of the engin for my taste.
I LOVE the look of duals, but I am not aware of any that provide good street performance without being really loud. I have looked at various threads and online stores. but hanvent found the solution. Any ideas? _________________ D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20379 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:01 am Post subject: |
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Duals will cause performance drop... You might want to consider 4 into 1 (merged header) for best performance like the Tri-Mil with quiet pack muffler or arrestor...
I would only consider ceramic coated for longevity...
Dale _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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andk5591 Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005 Posts: 16758 Location: State College, PA
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Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:48 am Post subject: |
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Thats actually one that I am pondering - That extra 6" with the muffler running behind the pipes makes a difference. Once again, keeping the current performance level is paramount. Thanks _________________ D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
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BL3Manx Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2006 Posts: 6767 Location: Northern California
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Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 10:40 am Post subject: |
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andk5591 wrote: |
Once again, keeping the current performance level is paramount. |
Any dual system is down on performance (torque and hp)compared to a 4 into 1. |
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andk5591 Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005 Posts: 16758 Location: State College, PA
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Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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I was thinking that - and that's OK - will stay with 4 in 1 - Waiting on email back from SoCal to confirm if that exhaust will clear dual carbs. I believe that I want to stay with 1 1/2" - since that is what I run now and it should keep my low end strong. Thanks for the help. I assume that the Super Trapp style mufflers are louder, correct? _________________ D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
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junior55 Samba Member
Joined: October 01, 2006 Posts: 941
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Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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I always like to post my homemade quads when someone looks for
options to duals.
Performance loss ?
I invite you to test drive these to find it. |
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20379 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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andk5591 wrote: |
I was thinking that - and that's OK - will stay with 4 in 1 - Waiting on email back from SoCal to confirm if that exhaust will clear dual carbs. I believe that I want to stay with 1 1/2" - since that is what I run now and it should keep my low end strong. Thanks for the help. I assume that the Super Trapp style mufflers are louder, correct? |
It will clear any dual carb arrangement... I have two of them on engines with dual Webers...
Dale _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20379 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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junior55 wrote: |
I always like to post my homemade quads when someone looks for
options to duals.
Performance loss ?
I invite you to test drive these to find it. |
What does a dyno say?...
Dale _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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lostinbaja Samba Member
Joined: December 19, 2004 Posts: 4036 Location: Frankfort, Illinois
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Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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The "Manx Sidewinder" makes good HP, fits great, lasts a long time and it's made in the U.S.A.
This is an original Manx Sidewinder that has been in use since 1968 with one Summer off for a buggy rebuild.
I also like the fact that you can see more of the engine.
_________________ Jerry...
If it's being towed, it must be a trailer!
"Vee Grow Too Soon Oldt Und Too Late Schmardt"
RIP Morgan
My photos
http://www.manxgallery.org/gallery/album92 |
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junior55 Samba Member
Joined: October 01, 2006 Posts: 941
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Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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Dale, primary reason for quads is to keep the buggy "short"..
If it were a drag buggy, the 4 into 1 would be on there.
I have had both on here and these actually are better than the 4/1's I had.. but that's according to my ass-dyno.
I also agree 2 into 1 or dual cannons can degrade power across the board, especially the unequal length ones. |
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snowymonkey Samba Member
Joined: December 09, 2007 Posts: 652 Location: Florida
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Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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junior55 wrote: |
I have had both on here and these actually are better than the 4/1's I had.. but that's according to my ass-dyno. |
I love it, Ass-Dyno is my new favorite "tech" term _________________ "The music moves me, but it moves me ugly"
- Nikoli Lee |
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jaymonkey Samba Member
Joined: September 13, 2005 Posts: 433
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Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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snowymonkey wrote: |
junior55 wrote: |
I have had both on here and these actually are better than the 4/1's I had.. but that's according to my ass-dyno. |
I love it, Ass-Dyno is my new favorite "tech" term |
lol, mine too..that's great. _________________ 1969 Beetle (Sadie)
1953 Kombi 23A -Sold
1969 Buggy Sold
1975 Buggy underdevelopment
insta @boldroguebuggy |
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andk5591 Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005 Posts: 16758 Location: State College, PA
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Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 3:00 am Post subject: |
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But a more PC term is Butt-Dyno......... LOL - But, I don't trust mine......I did a whole series of tests with the buggy playing with timing and such. And then put it on a chassis dyno which gave way different results. But, (pun intended) thanks for the ideas all. _________________ D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
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kustoms Samba Member
Joined: November 20, 2003 Posts: 1313
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Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:53 am Post subject: |
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This one is stainless. Its from CB. The motor is 2005 cc and dynoed at 145 hp.
_________________ Google this.
"Bread and Circuses"
And wondering what the heck happen to my Samba post count?!?
Tom Thompson
Tijuana Kustoms Inc. (TM)
1-516-338-8746
www.tjkustoms.com |
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laug6615 Samba Member
Joined: November 07, 2007 Posts: 552 Location: Greer, South Carolina
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Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 6:26 am Post subject: |
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I just ordered a Tri-Mil from with a glasspack from SoCal. I had the EMPI version of the one that Dale posted and it sucked big time. Poor craftsmanship from EMPI as usual, pieces didn't fit together tight and exhaust leaks from various places. I also liked the MANX sidewinder like lostinbaja posted, but you cant find the one that bolts together anymore. So I went with this one. Good thing about the way the muffler bolts on is you can also buy different ends like a Stinger, U-Turn pipe or a Quietpack. Hope it has a nice sound to it, I dont like it to loud but loud enough to hear it.
_________________ Gary
______________________________
Allison Daytona DuneBuggy |
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MURZI Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2005 Posts: 5063 Location: Madisonville, La
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Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 7:08 am Post subject: |
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generic empi exhaust with Hayabusa muffler.....QUIET!!!
video...
_________________ 62 vert
2276
Tim’s welded heads
45 Dells
A1 sidewinder
Fk44 cam |
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TC/TeamEvil Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2004 Posts: 1769
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Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 7:45 am Post subject: |
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"Duals will cause performance drop... "
Dale,
Would you know, at what point does duals make sense for a VW engine? I've heard before that a single muffler is the best way; provides needed back pressure and the four-into-one design helps with scavenging and such, I guess. Would you know what size and specs the engine would need to be to honestly benefit from the step up to dual exhaust? I imagine that, at a certain point in performance, the additional breathing from the duals would outweigh the lack of back pressure and scavenging.
Do you have any info on this or even know of a link where I could find some? Sure could use a little help ! !
Thanks ! !
TC |
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lostinbaja Samba Member
Joined: December 19, 2004 Posts: 4036 Location: Frankfort, Illinois
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Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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TC/TeamEvil wrote: |
"Duals will cause performance drop... "
Dale,
Would you know, at what point does duals make sense for a VW engine? I've heard before that a single muffler is the best way; provides needed back pressure and the four-into-one design helps with scavenging and such, I guess. Would you know what size and specs the engine would need to be to honestly benefit from the step up to dual exhaust? I imagine that, at a certain point in performance, the additional breathing from the duals would outweigh the lack of back pressure and scavenging.
Do you have any info on this or even know of a link where I could find some? Sure could use a little help ! !
Thanks ! !
TC |
Lack of scavaging is the main problem with 2 into 1 exhausts. With no scavaging the cylinders are drawing exhaust back into the cylinder during the valve overlap allowing it to mix with the fresh fuel charge and consequently killing performance.
I have swapped between a dual cannon exhaust and a Bugpack Bobtail with a glasspak and everybody that drove it could tell the performance improvement with the Bobtail and the Bugpack exhaust wouldn't be my first choice as far as performance is concerned. _________________ Jerry...
If it's being towed, it must be a trailer!
"Vee Grow Too Soon Oldt Und Too Late Schmardt"
RIP Morgan
My photos
http://www.manxgallery.org/gallery/album92 |
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wythac Samba Member
Joined: August 02, 2004 Posts: 2791
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Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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Let me throw this in for sauce;
I have had a heavily discounted, unused, ceramic coated dual cannon system advertised for a few months here with hardly a nibble. I think it is going to end up being someone's motor bench test system. It seems nobody wants it. Maybe I will keep it around and put it on after I get in a dispute with a neighbor............ |
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adriaan pienaar Samba Member
Joined: February 17, 2003 Posts: 692 Location: Sedgefield, South Africa
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