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Joel Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2006 Posts: 11099 Location: NSW Australia
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Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 12:18 am Post subject: |
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I can see where you're coming from, It depends how different the new key is to the old key.
This is an ignition barrel but same principal.
Thats a different key in it and you can see its pushed several of the wafers right out about 4-5mm as its alot different to the standard key.
By filing the 4mm off thats less material that is locking into the slot in the housing part to stop it turning, if you stick a yet another key in that doesnt push them out quite as far.
It's a hard thing to try and explain but it's not a huge concern anyway, VW's are so easy to break into even with perfect locks that it doesnt really matter.
_________________ Quick little bug, you got a Porsche motor in that?
1974 Germanlook 1303 2.5 Suba-Beetle |
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skabonner Samba Member
Joined: May 12, 2009 Posts: 854 Location: La Habra, Ca
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Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 1:25 am Post subject: |
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Forgive me if I am being a bit dumb here, but couldn't someone hypothetically make some new wafers in the same shape as the old ones, insert them into holes, and than file those down. A bit more meticulous than hording old wafers, but still effective right? Unless I am overlooking something
Also, I know that with fat chicks it is much easier to remove the barrel, but whats it like with '67s. I need to do this to my '67, but I haven't pulled the handles off to see what its like back there. _________________
Douglas Adams wrote: |
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. |
'68 Beetle "Sadie" (R.I.P.)
'67 Beetle "Ilsa"
'06 Gti "Heidi" |
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Aynthm Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2010 Posts: 1315 Location: Beaverton, Oregon
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Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 3:10 am Post subject: |
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I enjoyed the pictures and the descriptions. Nicely done. Thanks. |
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rokemester Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2009 Posts: 245 Location: Cleveland
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Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 3:50 am Post subject: |
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I AGREE, this is a very informative post. Nice pictures and excellent close ups to provide necessary detail for digging into this project on my 66 Bug. I picked up a door handle at a Swap meet last year and now I'm getting motivated to get out to the garage and start to play. Plus it's finally beginning to feel like Spring and the garage doesn't feel quite like an ice cave.
One day the driver's side door was working fine and then the next during a pouring rain storm (of course) hurried out to the car and the key wouldn't turn. Probably jammed it somehow because I was trying to hurry.
X3 on the German e-mail to order a VW key for $25. |
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fluxcap Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2006 Posts: 1969 Location: Newnan GA
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Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 4:42 am Post subject: |
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skabonner wrote: |
Forgive me if I am being a bit dumb here, but couldn't someone hypothetically make some new wafers in the same shape as the old ones, insert them into holes, and than file those down. A bit more meticulous than hording old wafers, but still effective right? Unless I am overlooking something |
The thing is, wafers aren't different sizes. They are all the exact same length. The difference between each one is the offset of the hole inside the wafer. This offset is what makes the teeth on the key get the wafer in the correct position.
PS, the pic above is from a thread I did a while back on our local site about re-keying an ignition if anyone is interested.
http://forum.georgiadubs.com/t2624-how-to-re-keying-an-ignition-switch _________________ Eric - 1966 camper bus
"It's like, how much more black could this be, and the answer is none.......none more black." |
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notsnarb Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2006 Posts: 845 Location: MI
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Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 5:26 am Post subject: |
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rokemester wrote: |
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I agree a nice tutorial and a great way to re-key. but why would anyone want to do this? I email VW in Germany with the key code and they happily cut me keys from code on the year correct VW blanks from '49 up less than $25 shipped in two days.............. Unless $25 is too much |
Would you mind sharing German e-mail address? Thanks. |
I'll list instructions again tonight and photograph the keys - they no longer stamp the key code on them - I guess that is just modern practice. I'll show the invoice too. And if anyone needs keys I'll help them - we could save on postage from Germany.
*************************************************************
So here's the keys VW sent me from Germany for my '66, these I bought a while back and bought '71 keys just before the holidays. My memory failed me, they do stamp part of the code. The two keys shown cost me (in Euros) 3.10 for the blank, 4.20 for cutting and 8.06 shipping - so two keys cost 22.66 Euro at today's rate that is $31.79.
They took a few days to get to me.
I'm more than happy to share the instructions on how to buy direct from VW Germany. I would prefer a PM and I'll share everything.
Why? because 18 months ago I offered the service of obtaining keys from VW Germany in the classifieds, at the time it all had to be done in German and I got a bunch of unpleasant emails accusing me of profiteering and selling copies from China etc. So I pulled the Ad. I was offering a service and it's okay to make a few bucks in doing so.
VWoA has no interest in sharing the availability of parts for Aircooled VW's, According to VW Germany these keys should be available from any US VWoA dealership. I don't have the inclination to go in and ask and be made to feel like an idiot by their parts guys, at least not while VW Germany offers a polite and reliable source for all VW keys cut from code on the correct blanks from '49 up. I also know that http://www.aircooledkey.com/ do an excellent service.
enjoy. feel free to PM me questions.
Last edited by notsnarb on Sun Mar 27, 2011 8:15 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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rokemester Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2009 Posts: 245 Location: Cleveland
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Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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Very cool. THANKS! |
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johnnypan Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2007 Posts: 7431 Location: sackamenna
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Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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skabonner wrote: |
Forgive me if I am being a bit dumb here, but couldn't someone hypothetically make some new wafers in the same shape as the old ones, insert them into holes, and than file those down. A bit more meticulous than hording old wafers, but still effective right? Unless I am overlooking something
Also, I know that with fat chicks it is much easier to remove the barrel, but whats it like with '67s. I need to do this to my '67, but I haven't pulled the handles off to see what its like back there. |
Just did my bucket tonight...the '67 is basically the same as ovalteens '65,cept it doesnt have the grub screw...pull the door handle,remove the screw retaining the pushbutton/lockcylinder guide,remove spring,remove the lock cylinder,bang out the roll pin and go for it...I pulled two wafers on mine,swapped two others,polished the barrel and shaft and it worked like it should.. |
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62Type1 Samba Member
Joined: March 21, 2011 Posts: 10 Location: California
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Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 11:11 pm Post subject: keys cut to code |
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Just had 2 original keys made by sending the key code from my handle. $15 shipped for 1 key. www.aircooledkey.com . my keys arrived in 3 days.
Last edited by 62Type1 on Thu Mar 31, 2011 12:16 am; edited 1 time in total |
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agggilli Samba Member
Joined: September 17, 2010 Posts: 246 Location: Greenville, NC
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Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 3:06 am Post subject: |
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Ovalteen thanks for the excellent writeup and photo tutorial. However one chooses to do it, your writeup certainly shows it is well within the capabilities of anyone needing it. I had not considered rekeying, but after reading this I am going to do so. I have a couple of handles laying around. |
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notsnarb Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2006 Posts: 845 Location: MI
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Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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Comments added, just bumping up the post |
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2tone64 Samba Member
Joined: September 11, 2007 Posts: 94
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Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 9:25 am Post subject: |
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Nice write up!
I had to do the ignition on my old 73. The key got stuck in the ignition with the motor running... I had to disassemble the entire lock and found out someone tried at one time to jimmy the lock assy. bending some of the tumblers. I ended up taking all of them out but one, not very secure, but if they wanted the bug they could take it regardless of what lock was in there.
It was kinda nice to be able to drive off with my pocket knife in the ignition though! Just glad I never got pulled over with that screwdriver sticking outta the hole... _________________ 64 Sunroof Bug, 68 Bug, 73 Super 'Vert, 01 Dodge 1500, 00 Subaru Outback, 46 Dodge 1-Ton, 68 Plymouth Roadrunner |
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marc80 Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2011 Posts: 10 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:33 am Post subject: |
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I'm trying to re key my lock from the engine cover. (1961 beetle)
I've already gotten the handle apart, but only two ping will come out.
The other four will go up and down, but will not come out.
I've also found a article on the internet about re keying (http://www.ebbo.org/re_keying.php)
Can any one tell me how to get the other four pins out?
I don't ave a key for the engine lock so 'm trying to make it work on the key of the doors.
Here are some pictures:
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AlteWagen Troll
Joined: February 23, 2007 Posts: 8503 Location: PNW
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Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:08 am Post subject: |
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some of the wafer slots get peened over on the edge and it keeps them in. I used a fine file to grind out the peened area and they fell right out. |
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marc80 Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2011 Posts: 10 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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derluftwagen wrote: |
some of the wafer slots get peened over on the edge and it keeps them in. I used a fine file to grind out the peened area and they fell right out. |
Thanks. I have now changes the pins successfully, and can lock my engine bay |
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Bruce Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003 Posts: 17290 Location: Left coast, Canada
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Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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In the future, do not remove the stainless steel cap off the end of the lock cylinder.
To remove stubborn wafers, put the tip of a small slotted screwdriver on the bottom end and hit it with a small hammer. They always pop out. _________________
overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote: |
..... a steering wheel made from a mastadon tusk..... |
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beetleman217 Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2011 Posts: 515 Location: Canada
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Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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First of all, what a fantastic thread.
Seeing marc80's T-handle re-keying, I am trying the same exact thing - using my ignition key on my 61 decklid.
I got all the wafers out, but whatever combination I try placing them in different slots, I can't get them to all get inside when the key is inserted. There are always two culprits sticking their heads out. What am I missing? |
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AlanWrench Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2011 Posts: 11 Location: SC
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Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 7:49 am Post subject: |
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www.aircooledkey.com no longer works it seems.
Anyone know what happened to this service?
-Alan |
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beetleman217 Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2011 Posts: 515 Location: Canada
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Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 6:40 am Post subject: |
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Thanks to this thread, I was able to re-key the three different locks (ignition, door, engine lid) on my 61 to use the ignition key! And I did so by simply changing the wafers around until the key fit, without having to grind them - although I did have to omit a wafer or two. But even with 4 wafers out of the 6 it works good and I prefer that than having to use a different key.
A question:
Did VW change the lock mechanism over the years? I have a spare handle which is different from the one on my car. Please look at the pics below for reference. I guess the second type is a later one?
The one on my 61 (the first 2 pics) has a self-lock mechanism, meaning the locking function is in the handle - you can actually lock the handle when it is not installed in the car - turning the key locks the button in place and it cannot be pressed.
Pics 3 and 4 is a mechanism that the key only moves the paddle to both sides. Is it supposed to move a component in the car's door lock?
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61SNRF Samba Member
Joined: March 29, 2009 Posts: 4657 Location: Whittier 90602
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Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:28 am Post subject: |
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beetleman217 wrote: |
Thanks to this thread, I was able to re-key the three different locks (ignition, door, engine lid) on my 61 to use the ignition key! And I did so by simply changing the wafers around until the key fit, without having to grind them - although I did have to omit a wafer or two. But even with 4 wafers out of the 6 it works good and I prefer that than having to use a different key.
A question:
Did VW change the lock mechanism over the years? I have a spare handle which is different from the one on my car. Please look at the pics below for reference. I guess the second type is a later one?
The one on my 61 (the first 2 pics) has a self-lock mechanism, meaning the locking function is in the handle - you can actually lock the handle when it is not installed in the car - turning the key locks the button in place and it cannot be pressed.
Pics 3 and 4 is a mechanism that the key only moves the paddle to both sides. Is it supposed to move a component in the car's door lock?
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Yes, VW changed handles and the lock mechanisms over the years.
Your first two pictured handles are the earlier type, and as you say the button is locked by the cylinder. You will have a round shaft on the door latch that the handle pushes in on to open.
The later style latches have the mechanism for locking. The paddle type handle moves the latch to the locked position. _________________ -Bruce
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. |
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