Some help please on EMPI 44 HPMX Single carb kit

[slammed1962vw]

First i should start out with is that i know alot of you are going to say junk carb, waste of time, ect.....I am kinda realizing that now, but somehow in someway i have to make this work because moneys tight and im running out of options and lots of shows coming up and so forth..Ive been looking at lots of information all over the forums.

I have a stock rebuilt AE 1971 1600cc dual port, 009 distributor no vacuum advance. Over carbed right!. Well ok but will it still work?
i dont have the heat tubes hooked up and realize that from other information on here that its needed and im going to work on this. It idles but runs very poorly and rich of course when i start to throttle it. I took it for a spin and runs very well and pulls hard at high rpm but thats it. I sprayed starting fluid in the #3,4 velocity stack side and it idles up..do it to the # 1,2 side and it wants to die. Plugs #1,2 really black charcol looking and #3,4 side wet.

details of carb after i took apart.

Not sure on Venturies, and how do you take them out?
F11 tubes
140 mains
200 airs
60 jets

I was told by a VW SHOP to buy a syncrometer and sync the barrels the same or close as possible before tuning or jetting..

I have never tuned a carb or done jet work but always willing to learn. I alway find it rewarding doing work yourself then to let someone else do it and not learn a thing and spend all kinds of money.

[jfats808]

It sounds like your centermount first needs to have the A/F mixture screws tuned correctly first. Start here: http://www.aircooled.net/gnrlsite/resource/articles/jetting.htm
Then look here:
http://www.aircooled.net/gnrlsite/resource/articles/dualcarb.htm

Instead of having a throat for each cylinder you are essentially using one throat to supply two cylinders. You can use a synch meter but technically since both throats are on the same spindle, you just have to set idle speed. After that turn in one A/F screw till it drops out, then open ever slowly till it speeds up and reaches even running with no stumbling. Repeat for the other A/F mixture screw.
I dont know whether or not some of your plugs are fouled. Might have to pull them and clean em good or just replace. Just be patient and do stuff step by step. Your running one of the least favored set ups that are a PITA to set up and get it to run well.
_________________
2276 IDA's 86C 11-1 DD !
2017 48 Trijet DRLA's W125

[slammed1962vw]

I did start with the recommended beast lean idle setup. 1.5 turns out on the air/fuel, .25 turn on idle adjust after touching throttle linkage, air bypass closed, ect. Adjusteding the air/fuel mixture screw really didn't change anything while running. What do you think i should start out with as far as venturi, idle jets, ect, for a stock 1600 dual port. People run dual carbs all the time i thought that a single 44 would be ok.

[slammed1962vw]

I did start with the recommended beast lean idle setup. 1.5 turns out on the air/fuel, .25 turn on idle adjust after touching throttle linkage, air bypass closed, ect. Adjusteding the air/fuel mixture screw really didn't change anything while running. What do you think i should start out with as far as venturi, idle jets, ect, for a stock 1600 dual port. People run dual carbs all the time i thought that a single 44 would be ok.

[RailBoy]

All I can say is check your plugs for soot if you are Rich, that is the big thing.

I run a Single 44 IDF on a 2110, read my plugs for 6 months of jetting and ended up with the following. Thing is some people say I am lean, but, keep my plugs from sooting up thus it keeps running, actually, it runs good.. But part of this jetting is do to my engine set-up, so keep that in mind.....

Just an idea of how lean you maybe but acutally not being lean, so you may here people say you are lean or rich, but it is what the engine likes to run well......

Single 44 IDF
32 Venturies
F-7 Emulsion Tubes
135 Mains
160 Airs
52 Idles
55 Pump Jets RB

[mharney]

You already know the worst of it.. it's EMPI and it's too big for your engine.

Low speed rich running is necessary if you don't have good heat risers. This is most of what you are experiencing.

[vwracerdave]

I hate to tell you what you already know, but a single 44 HPMX is too damn big for a stock 1600. Sure you can get it to run "OK" but it will never be correct. You need to drop your venturies down to 30-32mm then jet it. Heat risers are critical on all single center mount carbs.

Note to everybody else that is reading this. The 2 biggest mistakes that amature engine builders make is selecting too big of a cam and over carburating their engine. Size does matter, but bigger is not alway better.
_________________
2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63

Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos

[73 KAFER]

^^Ditto, yes. Your first step will be the venturis, and I would probably go with the 30mm Vents. Then start your jetting from there. No bigger than 32mm Vents though. Then you will go thru the 'fun' jetting process like I and many of us went through. I love my end product but I started with a Weber 40 IDF. With the help from Mharney and a Weber book ( which was really helpfull ) and reading everybody elses problems on here...It runs sweet Oh, John @ aircooled net gets a big nod....when he is done screaming at you, just do what he says



Mark
_________________
1973 Beetle
#3 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=775620Kafer-Cup vintage road racer

[AlteWagen]

One of the kids in the club is running your exact set up. EMPI 44 HPMX on a stock 1600DP. It runs and drives but is rich as hell and gets a whopping 8mpg. No power, no mileage. He is glad it runs and has had this set up for more than two years but he just doesnt have the cash for jets, vents and the like. I did convince him to run the pre heat but with the header he has it is not just effective enough. He lives in so cal so its not really cold but it runs even rougher when its below 50*.

[modok]

you don't absolutely need money my friend.
You could trade the 44 for a carb that is more suited, and I'd be happy to trade you a manifold that works better.

Where are you located?

[slammed1962vw]

Ditto, yes. Your first step will be the venturis, and I would probably go with the 30mm Vents. Then start your jetting from there. No bigger than 32mm Vents though. Then you will go thru the 'fun' jetting process like I and many of us went through. I love my end product but I started with a Weber 40 IDF. With the help from Mharney and a Weber book ( which was really helpfull ) and reading everybody elses problems on here...It runs sweet Oh, John @ aircooled net gets a big nod....when he is done screaming at you, just do what he says


If i measured the venturis right they are 30mm. i measured the narrowest part of the venturi. Should i get 28mm ones or do you think i should just use the 30mm ones. I really want this carb to work and willing to rejet whatever i need to to do so.. I know that im not the only one running this setup. Im just confused on how people can run dual 40's on a 1600cc but running a single 44 is too big..

[73 KAFER]

Slammed,
First, even if this is a brand new carb ( Weber , EPMI, ETC ) the first thing you should do is take it apart, which is not that hard, just be careful and write things down or draw things if you have to. Clean everything meaning all the jet orifices and most importantly check/set the floats which in most cases are off and they are an important part of the overall running of the VW engine. I also think using F-7 Emulsion tubes will be beneficial to you. The actual removal of the Vents I think will be the only way to know for sure what you have...being 44s, I would think they would come with 34s?,but I am not sure, maybe someone can chime in on that. On that note maybe someone might PM you with a sweet deal on some smaller Vents, hint, hint ( to somebody) I wish I could help you out. Your other jetting is a little off but those are a little cheaper and maybe swappable to someone. Yes that is not the right size carb for your engine BUT with enough patience and time and some money ( You made the choice ) it can be made to work. On the bright side if you ever go to a larger engine you already have a carb and parts, just have to do the re-jetting again...but you will already know how to do it


Mark
_________________
1973 Beetle
#3 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=775620Kafer-Cup vintage road racer

[slammed1962vw]

[slammed1962vw]

Are all the parts from a weber idf really interchangeable with the empi hpmx. I noticed that my idle jets are 1 piece and on the weber it has the jet and then the jet holder. Also on the empi the emulsion tube and air corrector jet is 1 piece and on the weber you can change it. So if i buy all new jets and emulsion tubes are they going to work/screw in? Because the jets and kits are not very cheap.

[77charger]

[slammed1962vw]

Wow, i really had to pull really hard. I thought i was going to damage the brass pieces. Thanks again for you help. I thought i was SOL with this empi. Seems there is lots of negative things to say about these carbs, so im hopeing i can make it work great an post some results

Thanks again

[AlteWagen]

make sure to measure the jets, some of the early carbs had jets that were not the size they were stamped.

[slammed1962vw]

[slammed1962vw]

Looking to see what everyone is running for single carb setups and engine size.

[mharney]