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Brent's 69 Fastback Build
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Brent
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tram wrote:
Make sense?


Almost. I don't see the current flow path in this section. The bottom/outer brass ring of the cancelling ring to what?

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Tram
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brent wrote:
Tram wrote:
Make sense?


Almost. I don't see the current flow path in this section. The bottom/outer brass ring of the cancelling ring to what?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


What year steering column are you using?
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Brent
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tram wrote:
What year steering column are you using?


69. The original turn signal lever was broken, this new one is exactly the same. Of course the horn didn't work either...
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brent wrote:
Tram wrote:
What year steering column are you using?


69. The original turn signal lever was broken, this new one is exactly the same. Of course the horn didn't work either...


I'm having a mental block on this for some reason. If I was there and had all the parts in front of me, I could straighten it right out. Anyone else wanna jump in? I went through this on Mike Fisher's '69 a couple years ago, but I had it all in front of me, and with my screwed- up back awaiting surgery, I am not capable of going out and ripping something down right at the moment. This is one thing Bentley is clear as mud about. I'll grab my other earlier model actual factory books tomorrow and see if it shows things a little better.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brent wrote:
Tram wrote:
Make sense?


Almost. I don't see the current flow path in this section. The bottom/outer brass ring of the cancelling ring to what?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



That contact ring belongs to 71,72 and 73 type 3 plus later bugs.
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Brent
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vlad01 wrote:
That contact ring belongs to 71,72 and 73 type 3 plus later bugs.


There are two contact rings out there, the one in the pic, and the other all metal style. The contact ring in the pic came off my stock wheel. The other, all metal, style contact ring doesn't seem right. There's something weird going on with 68-69 columns. Just trying to figure it out.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You don't need that plastic ring - you turn lever assembly doesn't have the contacts to accomodate

You need to run a wire THROUGH your steering column !

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brent wrote:
vlad01 wrote:
That contact ring belongs to 71,72 and 73 type 3 plus later bugs.


There are two contact rings out there, the one in the pic, and the other all metal style. The contact ring in the pic came off my stock wheel. The other, all metal, style contact ring doesn't seem right. There's something weird going on with 68-69 columns. Just trying to figure it out.


OK, that's what was confusing me- you need the all metal style. That looked like a later contact ring, hence my question about your steering column. It may have come off your wheel but it's not right for your car.

Now, if memory serves (now that it's been jarred) is that the column housing is isolated from the body, but the front beam should have a little ground strap to the body on it. The ground wire travels up through the isolated column to the horn ring. When you close the horn ring contact, it grounds through the steering shaft via the little ground strap on the front beam. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
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Brent
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I need this, correct?

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brent wrote:
So I need this, correct?

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You could probably just use the one you have just as a canceler. It's actually made for a '71-on which has a different horn grounding system. it won't affect how you ground your horn. It DID affect my brain. Laughing
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tram wrote:
Now, if memory serves (now that it's been jarred) is that the column housing is isolated from the body, but the front beam should have a little ground strap to the body on it.


So, when I put in my column, should I use a couple rubber washers to isolate it from the two bolts going through the steering housing to the underside of the dash?

I don't remember a ground strap from beam to body, but IIRC there was a ground from steering box to the top bolt on the pan side of the 10mm bolt for pan to beam. That would ground it to the body.

Thanks for the help! I'll take pictures and document how to put it together correctly.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brent wrote:
Tram wrote:
Now, if memory serves (now that it's been jarred) is that the column housing is isolated from the body, but the front beam should have a little ground strap to the body on it.


So, when I put in my column, should I use a couple rubber washers to isolate it from the two bolts going through the steering housing to the underside of the dash?

I don't remember a ground strap from beam to body, but IIRC there was a ground from steering box to the top bolt on the pan side of the 10mm bolt for pan to beam. That would ground it to the body.

Thanks for the help! I'll take pictures and document how to put it together correctly.


There should actually be an isolator mat that fits between the dash and column, and special sleeves, along with a rubber collar for the firewall.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 5:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tram wrote:
Brent wrote:
So I need this, correct?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


You could probably just use the one you have just as a canceler. It's actually made for a '71-on which has a different horn grounding system. it won't affect how you ground your horn. It DID affect my brain. Laughing


71 uses the black plastic one , its the 70 that uses this one.

Many believe the 71 steering wheel was a one year only, but the truth is its just and early type wheel with the late model black plastic contact ring.

the all metal one here is for 70 model, the 68-69 didn't have a contact but a mere cancel tag I think? I could be wrong though, this maybe the same for all 70 and prior?
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vlad01 wrote:

Many believe the 71 steering wheel was a one year only, but the truth is its just and early type wheel with the late model black plastic contact ring.


It IS different. It's the splines that make it different. I ran into this over 10 years ago on my 65, which has a 71 column in it. I tried to use my really nice 65 steering wheel on it, but it wouldn't go on due to the spline difference. I ended using the cracked and busted looking 71 only wheel on it. I also proved the same thing to Russ, who didn't believe me that they were different, as he had a 71 Fastback sitting there, at his house. He himself tried an early wheel on it, and it wouldn't go, but a later 4 spoke would fit right on. Shocked VW changed the column shaft in 71, in preperation for the 72 and later models. That's why there are a bunch of little changes in 71, that are 71 only (like the ignition switch). Surprised
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have 3 71's here and their steering wheels seem to fit on my 66,67 & 72 shafts fine.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike Fisher wrote:
I have 3 71's here and their steering wheels seem to fit on my 66,67 & 72 shafts fine.


I can only comment on what I've seen personally. But the 71 has a larger diameter shaft, like the 72 uses. This means it'll drop onto the earlier column shafts, but might not engage properly. Shocked
Mike, try and fit the 66 or 67 wheel on 1 of the 71 columns you have, and you'll see what I mean. Wink
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64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote:
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Tram wrote:
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed".
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Brent
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok. I finally get this.

Let me first say that I'm using an adapter that attaches to the splines on the steering column and not a stock wheel.

The two prongs on the back of this horn button were throwing me off. One of the contacts is hot, from the steering column to the adapter, to the button from the brass spring on the side of the horn. Only the middle prong is used, which goes to the the ground wire through the steering column.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


It doesn't seem like the billet adapter would be the best conductor from the 'hot' column to the button, but lots of people have them so I guess it works.

Now on isolating the column from the housing.

Tram wrote:
There should actually be an isolator mat that fits between the dash and column, and special sleeves, along with a rubber collar for the firewall.


I'm wondering if this might be a 67 and earlier thing. The housing still has the rubber collar at the bottom, but the parts diagram does not show a mat and sleeves for the style of housing I have. Second from the bottom, part 43 is what I have to attach the housing to the dash:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The bearing has a two-piece plastic sleeve that isolates the column from the housing. Correct?
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bobnotch wrote:
vlad01 wrote:

Many believe the 71 steering wheel was a one year only, but the truth is its just and early type wheel with the late model black plastic contact ring.


It IS different. It's the splines that make it different. I ran into this over 10 years ago on my 65, which has a 71 column in it. I tried to use my really nice 65 steering wheel on it, but it wouldn't go on due to the spline difference. I ended using the cracked and busted looking 71 only wheel on it. I also proved the same thing to Russ, who didn't believe me that they were different, as he had a 71 Fastback sitting there, at his house. He himself tried an early wheel on it, and it wouldn't go, but a later 4 spoke would fit right on. Shocked VW changed the column shaft in 71, in preperation for the 72 and later models. That's why there are a bunch of little changes in 71, that are 71 only (like the ignition switch). Surprised


thats BS! the splines are not different. they probably were on 72 and 73 but 71 had the same spines as the earlier wheels.

I know because I went and investigated it in person and compared 71 wheels to the rest of the models.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Brent,

Horn side:
The brown wire which comes out of your steering column switch mechanism must be connected to one contact of the horn.
The black/yellow marked wire must be connected to the other contact on your horn-> check if there is +12v current available.

Mount your adaptor onto the column. Check if you can measure "ground" at the black wire which is attached to the adaptor (i.e.: is there a connection between the sliding contact prong and the brass ring on your adaptors bottom)

Check if the wire inside the steering column center shaft has a proper "ground".

Here is the ground wire at the steering box visible:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


There is a contact pin under 1 screw to attach the center wire (red oval)

Connect this steering column center wire with the center contact of your horn button.
Connect the black wire which is attached onto your steering wheel adaptor to the other contact on your horn button.

Now you should hear a "honk" eveytime you press the buttom.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brent wrote:

Now on isolating the column from the housing.

Tram wrote:
There should actually be an isolator mat that fits between the dash and column, and special sleeves, along with a rubber collar for the firewall.


I'm wondering if this might be a 67 and earlier thing. The housing still has the rubber collar at the bottom, but the parts diagram does not show a mat and sleeves for the style of housing I have. Second from the bottom, part 43 is what I have to attach the housing to the dash:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The bearing has a two-piece plastic sleeve that isolates the column from the housing. Correct?


No Brent, it's not just a 67 and earlier deal. Both of my 71's still have them, as does my wife's 70. What you're looking for are the 36, 37, 38, 39, and 40 in the illustration. However, you're going to want the 68 and later bits, as the 67 and earlier pieces are different (holes are closer together). I don't have a part number handy for them, but there should be 1 for them. Keep in mind that 38 and 40 are on the back side of the dash (top side of the mounting lip), and should be "caged" by some tabs.
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71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote:
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives."
Tram wrote:
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed".
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View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
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