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tappet noise
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shaggymike
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:53 pm    Post subject: tappet noise Reply with quote

my wife took our westy for a ride and when she got back she noticed smoke. She found that the spark plug covers had been melted and that an instruction manual had gotten sucked into the fan.
Whenm I got home, I started the van and now it has a loud tappet sound.
The sound gets louder with raised rpms.
It is from the driver's side, #4 cylinder.
I pulled the valve cover off and was able to press in the second pushrod (I guess that's what it is) from the right. The rest were solid.
Is this the exhaust side or intake side?
What do I do next?
This is a new experience for me, but I know for some of you, it's a piece of cake. Any help is appreciated.
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shaggymike
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

one other piece of information is that I removed the spark plug wire of of both cylinders one at a time and the noise did not change.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am assuming this is on an air cooled?

Hopefully is will fix itself, but try this as you need to change your oil anyway as it is probably shot. When you do the change add one quart of ATF or MMO in place of a quart of oil. Run the engine at a high idle for an hour or so to try and clean up some of the burnt crud that is going to be coating the insides of the rocker boxes and crankcase and screwing up the lifter. Then dump that oil and fill with your normal oil.

I like Synthetic oils as they can handle more heat without burning, though they would have still been past their limit with zero cooling.

Buy yourself one of the screens that fits over the fan if you don't have one already. I guess you know now to never leave anything laying around in the engine compartment.

Good luck
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shaggymike
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is an aircooled. An 80. I was just telling my wife we needed that screen a few days before this.
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IdahoDoug
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's an intake. Describe "able to push in" a WHOLE lot better. If you were literally (without taking the rocker arms off) able to push or move the actual pushrod around then do not start the engine until this is cleared up. I think you've got a bent pushrod if so and possibly a seized valve. I'm currently an expert on this situation and hope in a week to lose all that knowledge and never have to use it again....

Ditto if you were talking about the valve stem (the upper twin on the other side of the rocker arm). Clarify this considerably.

DougM
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shaggymike
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/797327.jpg


What I mean by push it in, is that I can press on the bottom side of the rocker where there are little grip-like marks, and it will go in some. Basically, I can move the the rocker.
Hope fully my pic shows up and it will show, or I'll try again in a minute.
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shaggymike
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


there. I had to go read some directions. If only I could remember s*$t like that, things would be easier. Let me Know if I'm still not clear enough. Probably the reason I don't sound clear is because I don't know what I'm talking about.Smile
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It just sounds like a soft lifter to me. Sometimes they can take quite a while to pump up. There is one trick you can try. Set the crankshaft so that that cylinder in question is at TDC compression. Now back the adjusting screw off until there is just a little bit of lash, .001-.006". Now start and run the engine at a high idle. The lifter hopefully will now pump up very quickly and once it does you can go back and set the preload correctly.

I would still recommend flushing your oil as I mentioned above.
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shaggymike
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i went and got everything to do as you said with changing the oil. I'll try that first cuz I don't really understand that lash stuff. I've read about it on here, sounds like you have to be very precise. Am I right?
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BayrischerGTI
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would try the Valve adjustment first. Just my .02 though.
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shaggymike
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well I did the first oil change and it. worked. I still hear a little tiny tapping noise i think, but it when i raise the rpms i cant hear it. i did the screwdriver stethoscope trick and they all sound the same, whereas before, there was a loud obvious tapping from the valve i mentioned.
I'm letting the motor cool before i replace that oil. Not sure if I need to do that, but I don't wanna melt tha plastic oil container I just bought.
Seems like that did the trick.
Thanks ya'll. Especially Wildthings.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shaggymike wrote:
i went and got everything to do as you said with changing the oil. I'll try that first cuz I don't really understand that lash stuff. I've read about it on here, sounds like you have to be very precise. Am I right?


It is actually not very precise, no feeler gauges or anything necessary. Just a good feel for what you are doing.

Glad you lifter quieted down. Hopefully there has not been permanent damage to any of the valves or valve seats, but you should pay close attention to the valve train for a while. I would suggest finding a friend who would help you do a valve adjustment and get one done so you have a baseline to work from. Then do additional adjustments at 10,000 intervals for a couple of years, or if you start getting anything strange noises from or poor performance from the engine. When you do the adjustments carefully count the number of turns you have to back the lifter off to get zero lash and record it for each valve. This is your baseline and if it things change much between adjustments you will want to figure out what is happening and why.
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shaggymike
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

how do you know your at zero lash?
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shaggymike wrote:
how do you know your at zero lash?


The screw will have no pressure on it anymore. You just turn the screw counter clockwise with a short screwdriver until you feel the resistance drop away to almost zero. When you go to tighten them again I recommend using your fingers to find to point of zero lash, as you will have more sensitivity using your fingers than using a screwdriver.

You need to be sure you are at TDC compression for each cylinder as you do the adjustment. The distributor rotor needs to be pointing to the spark plug wire for whatever cylinder you are working on.
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