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Clutch Help... (Clutch will not engage when running)
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hotdogpimp
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:59 am    Post subject: Clutch Help... (Clutch will not engage when running) Reply with quote

My setup is a 091 transmission, kennedy adapter, cnc hydraulic slave cylinder and oldsmobile quad4.

Ive just added:

Kennedy Stage1 Pressure Plate
New Clutch Disc

I can select gears when car is not running, but I get a nasty grind when trying to shift while running. Pedal is really spongy and ive blead the system several times. I removed the clutch slave and I can push the clutch arm down fairly easy. If I remember correctly, there should be a bit more resistence at the arm. Can someone please tell me where to start. Ive put this engine in and out 4 times over the last 8 months. Alone. It is a pain in the a$$. Please help.
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Dale M.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sort of sounds like hydraulic clutch (master/slave) and adjustment is more of problem then actual pressure plate and related clutch parts.... Sure you have correct throw out bearing for clutch disk (don't know if it needs clutch plate with ring or not)

IF pedal is spongy it indicates either air in system (still after bleed) or air is leaking into system at MC or Slave or (possibly either needs rebuild) or bad line from MC to slave...

Last of all there is adjustment, it could be that you are not getting enough travel on slave to fully disengage clutch, this would cause a certain amount of "power" to be applied (when engine running) to gears in transaxle and cause hard shifting and gear grinding...

I would look at slave cylinder adjustment (first) since you put in new stuff and usually nothing "fits" the same (as for adjustments) as the old parts...

Dale
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hotdogpimp
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Dale,

I'm surely going to resolve the pedal/slave issue. My only fear is that it will not solve the problem. I'm thinking of engaging the pedal and then tightening the end bolts until the arm is fully thrown/pulled. After that, Ill start the car and try to shift gears? Would that be a proper test?
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Dale M.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hotdogpimp wrote:
Thanks Dale,

I'm surely going to resolve the pedal/slave issue. My only fear is that it will not solve the problem. I'm thinking of engaging the pedal and then tightening the end bolts until the arm is fully thrown/pulled. After that, Ill start the car and try to shift gears? Would that be a proper test?


Actually you should be able to adjust nut on slave till you can feel a little free play (but very stiff) between where throwout bearing contacts clutch plate and adjusting nut (from slave) contacts arm...

Also if air bleed valve on clutch slave cylinder is not facing up (vertical) and at highest end of cylinder you will never get all the air out of slave no matter how much you bleed system..

Dale
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hotdogpimp
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SO I just tightened the end of the slave cylinder almost all the way. Pedal felt almost normal but gears still wouldn't engage. Leads me to believe that my first problem is that I did not reinstall the slave correctly. On top of that the slave is not properly blead. When installing should the throwout arm move at all? should I tighten the nut on the slave until I feel the throwout bearing engage the clutch?
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hotdogpimp
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK. I reblead the system and readjusted the clutch. I have good pedal pressure and still cant shift gears. WWTF
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Dale M.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hotdogpimp wrote:
OK. I reblead the system and readjusted the clutch. I have good pedal pressure and still cant shift gears. WWTF


Clutch is still not fully disengaging...

Lets go back to "does clutch plate have ring in it"?...

Dale
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hotdogpimp
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clutch came with a ring but I removed it. New style tranny.
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lostinbaja
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not very familiar with Bus trannys but on a regular sedan trans you can install a shorter throwout lever which increases the throwout bearing travel.
See if you can utilize a shorter arm (throwout lever). Also, make sure the system has absolutely no air in the system.
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Last edited by lostinbaja on Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:50 am; edited 1 time in total
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hotdogpimp
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like im pulling the damn engine again!

Embarassed
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DWP
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a similar problem with my slave cylinder. Shifted great without engine running, grinding gears with engine running. Finally figured out the problem.
Kind of hard to explain, but the clutch arm was not moving enough.
Here's what I did. unbolt the slave cylinder, with your hand or a small bar try to move the clutch fork. it should move a little until you feel the resistance of the spring.
Now move it some more until you feel the pressure from the clutch plate. Notice where the arm is.
Now go back and install the slave cylinder and adjust about a 1/2 inch from the point where you felt the pressure plate.
In other words the way you have it set up you are only moving the clutch are against the spring pressure, not the resistance of the pressure plate/clutch.

DWP
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hotdogpimp
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have the slave fully tightened. So I don't know if adjusting it anymore will work. Unless I'm misunderstanding what you are saying. Appletree suggested that the throwout forks were bent but I inspected them and they looked fine.
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DWP
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Take a look at my post over here
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=131126

Wish I could explain better
My basic problem was that the slave only moved about 1 inch. That inch was only moving the arm against the pressure of the return spring, not the clutch. I removed the slave cylinder and moved the fork by hand until i felt the resistance of the return spring. I was able to keep moving it until I felt the resistance of the throw out bearing contact the arms on the clutch. I do not remember the amount but it was more than an inch.
I finally made a new mount for the slave cylinder.
before you do anything else start adding washers under the adjusting bolt. keep adding until everything works and you have a measurement.
DWP
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streetbuggy8804
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This may be a little off but might be worth exploring. I had a problem with the clutch engaging particularly when the engine was running. Did a lot of trouble shooting and it turned out after all that, that my shift rod was to short. As a result it would not go into 1st and 3rd. May be worth checking
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lostinbaja
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

streetbuggy8804 wrote:
This may be a little off but might be worth exploring. I had a problem with the clutch engaging particularly when the engine was running. Did a lot of trouble shooting and it turned out after all that, that my shift rod was to short. As a result it would not go into 1st and 3rd. May be worth checking


His clutch most likely is not disengaging, with or without the engine running. The only reason he can shift the gears with the engine not running is due to the fact that the engine not running, the trans is not turning. Because the internals of the trans are not spinning, it will go into gear. Start the engine, get the trans spinning and it will not go into gear without grinding and or breaking something.
The problem he is having is a common problem when converting to a juice clutch.
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hotdogpimp
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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The splines on the clutch disc were damaged. This damage prevented the disc from floating on the shaft. New disc and it drives!
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