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emu88
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Joined: May 20, 2009
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Location: Antalya, Turkey
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 Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 1:53 am Post subject: emu's engine rebuild - 71 Super |
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I have created far too many specific threads seeking quick answers, and whilst they work, I understand it must be quite messy. So, for the remainder of my build I'll post all my questions and photos here. Once I'm done maybe I'll add the previous stages too so other people can benefit from it.
Well, let me commence with my next set of questions!
FIRST I chose to go with high temp red silicone sealant for the jugs to case. For the first and second jug I spread a sparing film on the jug rim itself, concentrated towards the outer edge. For the third and fourth jugs, I instead applied the same film to the case instead. Once I tightened them flush there was only a very small bead of sealant squished out. So It must have been even less inside if any at all because I concentrated it to the outer edge. The below photos show this, looks okay?
SECOND, after installing the baffle plates, I lapped the cylinders to the heads, cleaned them throroughly and proceeded to slip them on to the studs holding the pushrod tubes in the other hand. I tightened them bit by bit but haven't torqued them yet. Below photos look okay? Do the pushrod tube seals need to bang on centred?
THIRD, a bit unrelated, but how can I tell when the clutch is centred? Is it just a matter of sticking the centring tool in the clutch disc and gland nut hole and then tightening the pressure plate bolts?
FINALLY is there anything that looks untoward or that you would recommend I double check before I proceed?
Last edited by emu88 on Sun May 01, 2011 1:58 am; edited 1 time in total |
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emu88
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Location: Antalya, Turkey
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| Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 1:57 am Post subject: |
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| Also, all my books talk about 8 or 10mm head studs. Mine are 15mm!!? |
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RA 70
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Location: Santa Cruz
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| Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 2:25 am Post subject: |
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| Its the size of the studs, not the bolt head size. |
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djkeev
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Location: Central Morris County, NJ
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| Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 4:24 am Post subject: |
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Whew!!! Progress!!
The head studs of 8 or 10 is the diameter of the stud itself. The head of the nut is 15mm. Take an open end wrench, spanner, and slip it over the stud to see what size you have. At this stage, its NOT important.
The silicone seal looks nice even though I disdain the use of silicone on a VW engine.
Yes, the alignment tool you have shown will center the clutch disc as it needs to be, just tighten the pressure plate down evenly.
The pushrod tube seals will often appear a tad off center. They have the conical sealing design and leaks will not be an issue. It is recommended to install the pushrod seals dry for best performance. You did stretch out the tubes before installation?
Keep going man!! It's been a LONG road for you.
Dave
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1974 Super Convertible
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=rust+repair
Creating a 69 1/2 Ghia Convertible out of a 69 Coupe and a 70 Convertible
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
And the newest arrival!....... 86 Vanagon Westy!
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537 |
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emu88
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| Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 4:39 am Post subject: |
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| djkeev wrote: | Whew!!! Progress!!
The head studs of 8 or 10 is the diameter of the stud itself. The head of the nut is 15mm. Take an open end wrench, spanner, and slip it over the stud to see what size you have. At this stage, its NOT important.
The silicone seal looks nice even though I disdain the use of silicone on a VW engine.
Yes, the alignment tool you have shown will center the clutch disc as it needs to be, just tighten the pressure plate down evenly.
The pushrod tube seals will often appear a tad off center. They have the conical sealing design and leaks will not be an issue. It is recommended to install the pushrod seals dry for best performance. You did stretch out the tubes before installation?
Keep going man!! It's been a LONG road for you.
Dave |
Thanks Dave!
Well, since the last post I have torqued the head nuts to spec, torqued the rocker arms to spec and done the valve adjustment, and put on the valve covers. Now I'm about to torque the spark plugs. Amazing how it suddenly looks like an engine again!
I know you don't like silicone, sorry 
I do have a question, when I was doing the valve adjustment, #1 at tdc was perfect, the mark on the pulley wheel lined up with the case line and #1 valve spring were fully extended. All were the same. HOWEVER, when I turned the wheel each 180 degrees, the rotor on the dizzy was off by about 45 degrees each time. Despite me lining it up when I inslatted it in the case. I assume I can remedy that once the rest is all done by just loosening it and adjusting? |
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djkeev
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emu88
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| Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 5:38 am Post subject: |
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| djkeev wrote: | It takes two complete 360 degree rotations of the crank shaft to fire all four cylinders. During these rotations the cam only rotates once, hence the immense difference in size of the cam gear and the crank gear.
I forgive you for the silicone, hope you don't live to regret it! That is the ONLY place where using silicone is possibly safe.
Dave |
But what I mean is when I set it at TDC for #1, the notches on the pulley lined up but the rotor on the dizzy was about 45 degrees out of place.? |
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djkeev
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| Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 5:50 am Post subject: |
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| emu88 wrote: | | djkeev wrote: | It takes two complete 360 degree rotations of the crank shaft to fire all four cylinders. During these rotations the cam only rotates once, hence the immense difference in size of the cam gear and the crank gear.
I forgive you for the silicone, hope you don't live to regret it! That is the ONLY place where using silicone is possibly safe.
Dave |
But what I mean is when I set it at TDC for #1, the notches on the pulley lined up but the rotor on the dizzy was about 45 degrees out of place.? |
Ah.......
That is simply that despite your best efforts, the distributor drive gear was installed a few teeth off. Simply rotate the distributor so the #1 notch lines up with the rotor. If you can't do that because of the vacuum can, just shift all the wires over one location on the cap and make a mental note of it.
This is a very common problem, happens even to "experienced" builders  and as long as you compensate for the changes as mentioned, all is well with the world.
Dave
_________________
(o\ ! /o) (o)=l=(o)
1974 Super Convertible
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=rust+repair
Creating a 69 1/2 Ghia Convertible out of a 69 Coupe and a 70 Convertible
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
And the newest arrival!....... 86 Vanagon Westy!
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537 |
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emu88
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| Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 6:06 am Post subject: |
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| djkeev wrote: | | emu88 wrote: | | djkeev wrote: | It takes two complete 360 degree rotations of the crank shaft to fire all four cylinders. During these rotations the cam only rotates once, hence the immense difference in size of the cam gear and the crank gear.
I forgive you for the silicone, hope you don't live to regret it! That is the ONLY place where using silicone is possibly safe.
Dave |
But what I mean is when I set it at TDC for #1, the notches on the pulley lined up but the rotor on the dizzy was about 45 degrees out of place.? |
Ah.......
That is simply that despite your best efforts, the distributor drive gear was installed a few teeth off. Simply rotate the distributor so the #1 notch lines up with the rotor. If you can't do that because of the vacuum can, just shift all the wires over one location on the cap and make a mental note of it.
This is a very common problem, happens even to "experienced" builders and as long as you compensate for the changes as mentioned, all is well with the world.
Dave |
Hmm I see. Dunno how I made that error. Maybe I didn't tighten the bolt down enough and I knocked it. So I just need to loosen the dizzy clamp and rorate the distributor so the rotor lines up with the notch right? |
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ashman40
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| Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 6:10 am Post subject: |
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With your TDC crank pulley mark lined up with the case split at the top of the pulley, and the valves for #1 cylinder fully closed (gap between rockers and valves)... you are now at TDC for #1.
At this point, remove the 13mm distributor hold down nut and pull the distributor straight out. Do not loosen the adjustment nut and you can reinstall it without changing the timing too much. With the distributor OUT, you can look down the distributor hole and confirm the drive gear is aligned correctly... with the larger portion towards the flywheel and the slot aligned perpendicular to the case split. A small alignment error can be ignored (the coarse teeth of the drive gear doesn't allow for small adjustments).
Once it is aligned correctly, re-install the distributor and tighten it down..... NOW, wherever your rotor is pointing is TDC for #1. Don't concern yourself if this is not where you EXPECT #1 to be. Cam, crank and drive gears dictate that this is where #1 is, no arguments. Rotate your distributor body until the small notch in the rim is lined up with the rotor tip.
Now static time your distributor.
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'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD)
"stock" 1600 w/ 34 PICT-3 carb & S/A tranny |
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djkeev
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Joey
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| Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 7:31 am Post subject: |
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| djkeev wrote: | | The head studs of 8 or 10 is the diameter of the stud itself. The head of the nut is 15mm. Take an open end wrench, spanner, and slip it over the stud to see what size you have. At this stage, its NOT important. |
It's important. 8mm head studs get torqued to 18 ft pounds and 10mm head studs get torqued to 23 ft pounds.
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djkeev
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candymustang65
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| Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 9:25 am Post subject: |
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DkJeeve ?
Dont like high temp silicone ?
I love the stuff !
My engine's sport a big 1/8th to uppers of 1/4 inch diameter bead .
Furthermore you cant have a successfull 90.5 build with out High temp silicone ?
Gene Berge claimed it was all that should ever be used under cylinder's ?
Silicone ruining motor's is just some more Hott V.W. magazine Hype and B.S.
Another half truth soon to be Urbann Legend .
It's what you use !
But it's all in how you use it !
Emu you start up easy and keep her low revved like 2500 RPM to break the camm in but do not exceed the 2500 RPM limit .
Reason's are many !
Easy on cold start up's as in baby the throttle especially when cold and watch for oil leak's under #1 cylinder until she is broke in at around 2000 mile's .
Good luck ?
Sean |
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johnnypan
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| Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 10:03 am Post subject: |
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| Curil T the case,permatex ultra grey the jugs,fuel pump,alt stand,gaskacinch the valve covers,nothing on the oil pump cover,silicone on the case side...even the push tube seals...the key to silicone is using quality well engineered products and the "brylcream rule"...a little dab will do ya... |
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djkeev
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alexvw
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| Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 11:48 am Post subject: |
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Yes, like others have said, once the pressure plate has been tightened down evenly the clutch will be in place with the tool inserted. In most other cars you would need to position it evenly by feeling the clutch on the pressure plate and making sure it is centered before tightening up. In this case, the clutch sits inside of the flywheel and it falls into place with the tool 
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1974 Volkswagen Superbeetle
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emu88
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| Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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| alexvw wrote: | | Yes, like others have said, once the pressure plate has been tightened down evenly the clutch will be in place with the tool inserted. In most other cars you would need to position it evenly by feeling the clutch on the pressure plate and making sure it is centered before tightening up. In this case, the clutch sits inside of the flywheel and it falls into place with the tool |
Even though the tool seems to wobble in the end of the gland nut?
Thanks Ashman for your informative explanation, I'll do that tomorrow!
And thanks Sean and everyone else too for your input. I HOPE I HOPE none of my silicone squeezed off to the inside of the engine, but İ'm thinking even if it did, it would be so little it would just flush out.
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alexvw
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| Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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| emu88 wrote: | | alexvw wrote: | | Yes, like others have said, once the pressure plate has been tightened down evenly the clutch will be in place with the tool inserted. In most other cars you would need to position it evenly by feeling the clutch on the pressure plate and making sure it is centered before tightening up. In this case, the clutch sits inside of the flywheel and it falls into place with the tool |
Even though the tool seems to wobble in the end of the gland nut?
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Is it tight? Is your pilot bearing in the gland nut?
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1995 Mitsubishi 3000GT SL
1974 Volkswagen Superbeetle
"No shit Jack !
That will tell you if they are the same
Such a bunch of wizards ! ! ! !
Jerry"
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=475355&highlight= |
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emu88
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| Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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| alexvw wrote: | | emu88 wrote: | | alexvw wrote: | | Yes, like others have said, once the pressure plate has been tightened down evenly the clutch will be in place with the tool inserted. In most other cars you would need to position it evenly by feeling the clutch on the pressure plate and making sure it is centered before tightening up. In this case, the clutch sits inside of the flywheel and it falls into place with the tool |
Even though the tool seems to wobble in the end of the gland nut?
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Is it tight? Is your pilot bearing in the gland nut? |
The pilot bearing is I assume the little spinning spool in the gland nut - yes it's in. I torqued it with the torquemaster to a little over 300 foot pounds with blue loctite on the threads. I am right in dividing the force by 9? I2ll take a short video of the wobble in the tool and post it. |
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There are other safer options.