Joined: September 03, 2009 Posts: 694 Location: Maryland
Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 10:20 am Post subject:
djkeev wrote:
VeedubPastor wrote:
Hmmmm... That may hold for a while. It would be better to use the proper gauge solid wire and solder everything back together. I would worry that the stranded wire would flex with normal engine vibration and eventually break. You need a beefy gun to solder to a bolt head. A torch would probably be better. If you don't have solid wire, double or triple up the stranded wire and tin it all together to make a solid wire of suitable gauge. That should be ok for such a short piece. Definely solder - don't just twist them together. Twist them together first to make a good mechanical connection and then comepletely saturate it with the solder.
Actually to muddy the waters for you, stranded copper wire withstands vibration much better than a solid wire does. This is why auto's have stranded wire and in any application that involves flex has stranded wires, for example the cord feeding electricity to your table lamp or computer.
Stranded wire gauge will be a tad larger in diameter than solid wire for there is air space around each strand taking up space.
Dave
Yes - agreed! Stranded wire has a much longer flex life and will do better than solid in a flex situation, (like a mic cable) but this is a stationary application and the solid wire will not move like the stranded does, so flex life is not as much an issue. Either would work here; I just tend to think that the solid wire (or a short, tinned, stranded wire) would last longer. The repair looks fine. Solder it up! With the bolt attached to the case, it might be hard to get the bolt hot enough if you're not using a torch since the case is working as a heat sink... _________________ 1971 Super Beetle - Daily Driver
Solex H30/31 & 034 distributor (yeah, I know)
Stock thermostat & flaps
Stock air cleaner and emissions equipment
Joined: May 20, 2009 Posts: 1484 Location: Antalya, Turkey
Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 10:27 am Post subject:
VeedubPastor wrote:
djkeev wrote:
VeedubPastor wrote:
Hmmmm... That may hold for a while. It would be better to use the proper gauge solid wire and solder everything back together. I would worry that the stranded wire would flex with normal engine vibration and eventually break. You need a beefy gun to solder to a bolt head. A torch would probably be better. If you don't have solid wire, double or triple up the stranded wire and tin it all together to make a solid wire of suitable gauge. That should be ok for such a short piece. Definely solder - don't just twist them together. Twist them together first to make a good mechanical connection and then comepletely saturate it with the solder.
Actually to muddy the waters for you, stranded copper wire withstands vibration much better than a solid wire does. This is why auto's have stranded wire and in any application that involves flex has stranded wires, for example the cord feeding electricity to your table lamp or computer.
Stranded wire gauge will be a tad larger in diameter than solid wire for there is air space around each strand taking up space.
Dave
Yes - agreed! Stranded wire has a much longer flex life and will do better than solid in a flex situation, (like a mic cable) but this is a stationary application and the solid wire will not move like the stranded does, so flex life is not as much an issue. Either would work here; I just tend to think that the solid wire (or a short, tinned, stranded wire) would last longer. The repair looks fine. Solder it up! With the bolt attached to the case, it might be hard to get the bolt hot enough if you're not using a torch since the case is working as a heat sink...
Good tip. I plan on using a soldering iron and just emlting the solder to the repair, that's all I can get access to!
I hope to get this done tomorrow and will post pics of how it went.
Joined: February 03, 2011 Posts: 881 Location: Hales Corners, Wisconsin
Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 6:52 pm Post subject:
If I were you, I would have just bought a new one instead of messing with that stuff! _________________ 1995 Mitsubishi 3000GT SL
1974 Volkswagen Superbeetle
"No shit Jack !
That will tell you if they are the same
Such a bunch of wizards ! ! ! !
Joined: May 20, 2009 Posts: 1484 Location: Antalya, Turkey
Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 11:46 pm Post subject: Soldered repair
Well I did it! It's quite firm and solid, no wobble and the part where the original wire meets the new stuff is well doused in solder.
1. Does the clearance look fine from the top?
2. Must none of the wires touch each other or the body of the generator?
3. Should I flake off all remaining LOOSE paper insulation to avoid it falling off inside later?
4. Any other comments before I reassemble it!?
Joined: May 20, 2009 Posts: 1484 Location: Antalya, Turkey
Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 2:20 am Post subject: Difficult to turn over engine
On another note, I was trying to turn over the engine by hand with all the plugs in etc, and at a few points I can barely do it - have to get a spanner to the pulley nut. I guess this is the compression working, but can someone reassure me that it is normal/fine!?
Joined: May 20, 2009 Posts: 1484 Location: Antalya, Turkey
Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 5:22 am Post subject:
Paul Windisch wrote:
It is normal. As long as you can still turn it, even with a wrench, it's ok.
Thanks.
Now I am trying to line up those stupid little air things with the holes in the rear tin, they just WONT line up. Both are about 45 degrees out and it is physically imposible to move them more than I have. So annoying to be held up by such piddly little things. WHY WONT THEY LINE UP!!!
edit
Aslo the damn fan shroud rocks back and forth when I push it all the way down, as if the centre of it is pivoting on the case. Also makes NO sense whatsoever. Why don't things just work, and if they insist on not working why on earth is it always a problem that makes no sense whatsoever, as if my shroud changed its dimensions overnight!
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 9550 Location: Hot Arizona
Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 6:38 am Post subject:
Where you soldered that connection on the generator - I'd put some type of insulator under that so it doesn't make contact with the generator body. Maybe a thick piece of cardboard, a thin piece of wood, electrical tape, whatever will keep that from touching, with road vibration, etc. _________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2004 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297
Joined: May 20, 2009 Posts: 1484 Location: Antalya, Turkey
Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 6:40 am Post subject:
Cusser wrote:
Where you soldered that connection on the generator - I'd put some type of insulator under that so it doesn't make contact with the generator body. Maybe a thick piece of cardboard, a thin piece of wood, electrical tape, whatever will keep that from touching, with road vibration, etc.
Ok, what would happen if it did?
I did that and also wrapped the exposed wires, look okay?
Joined: May 20, 2009 Posts: 1484 Location: Antalya, Turkey
Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 11:30 am Post subject:
What's the point in creating a dedicated thread under instruction when it becomes full of different questions that noone answers! Ive been working for 12 hours straight with this stupid car and progressed barely an inch, irritating little problems bits that I drop and endless obstacles that I cannot solve without help. I have a right mind to douse the whole thing in fuel and set it alight the damn thing has made me 20 years older.
Joined: September 02, 2009 Posts: 2257 Location: Fraser, Michigan
Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 11:52 am Post subject:
emu88 wrote:
Paul Windisch wrote:
It is normal. As long as you can still turn it, even with a wrench, it's ok.
Thanks.
Now I am trying to line up those stupid little air things with the holes in the rear tin, they just WONT line up. Both are about 45 degrees out and it is physically imposible to move them more than I have. So annoying to be held up by such piddly little things. WHY WONT THEY LINE UP!!!
edit
Aslo the damn fan shroud rocks back and forth when I push it all the way down, as if the centre of it is pivoting on the case. Also makes NO sense whatsoever. Why don't things just work, and if they insist on not working why on earth is it always a problem that makes no sense whatsoever, as if my shroud changed its dimensions overnight!
First, did you remove the fresh air hose collectors from the muffler? If you did, you possibly mismatched the bottoms and tops. Secondly, what kind of muffler is on it? The shape of the pipes on some aftermarket mufflers is not ideal to make the collectors fit.
As far as you fan shroud, it might rock a little bit now, but don't worry about it. Get the generator put together and get it back on the fan shroud. Once you've accomplished this, get the generator strap snug on the stand and spin the generator/fan by hand to make sure the fan doesn't rub in the shroud. Make adjustments as necessary. Once that feels good, tighten down the flat headed screws in both ends of the shroud (the screws that tighten in the slot on the cylinder head tins). It should be nice and tight at that point. Put the belt on and ensure that it is in alignment with the crank pulley. You should be good at this point. _________________ *ASE Recertified Master Automotive Tech*
1984 Mexican Beetle
2013 Chevrolet Volt DD
2005 Pontiac Montana SV6 (the loser cruiser)
Joined: May 20, 2009 Posts: 1484 Location: Antalya, Turkey
Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 12:58 pm Post subject:
Paul Windisch wrote:
First, did you remove the fresh air hose collectors from the muffler? If you did, you possibly mismatched the bottoms and tops. Secondly, what kind of muffler is on it? The shape of the pipes on some aftermarket mufflers is not ideal to make the collectors fit.
Nope, I didn't remove that - is it even possible?? The longer tube coming out of them fit well with the heat exchangers, the other side that has the shorter one woul be far from meeting the heat exchanger so I guess they are on correctly anyway. I just can't fathom AT ALL how this could have happened. I have rigged it such that the fresh air hoses will feed into them, but it's not study and involves cut pieces of old old air hose, not ideal
Paul Windisch wrote:
As far as you fan shroud, it might rock a little bit now, but don't worry about it. Get the generator put together and get it back on the fan shroud. Once you've accomplished this, get the generator strap snug on the stand and spin the generator/fan by hand to make sure the fan doesn't rub in the shroud. Make adjustments as necessary. Once that feels good, tighten down the flat headed screws in both ends of the shroud (the screws that tighten in the slot on the cylinder head tins). It should be nice and tight at that point. Put the belt on and ensure that it is in alignment with the crank pulley. You should be good at this point.
Hmm okay. But it definately pivots on the centre of the case, where the parting is. Infact it has cut small grooves into it where I keep rocking it. Another thing that makes no sense. If the moulding on the bottom of the fan shroud meets the top of the cylinder tinware on one side, the other is about 1/4 inch stuck up, and visa versa. So I suppose I'll have about 1/8 inch too high on either side.. Hope it's okay!
Joined: September 02, 2009 Posts: 2257 Location: Fraser, Michigan
Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 1:57 pm Post subject:
Another thing that's *possible* is that the cylinder head tins are warped/pushed down. Try pulling up on the cylinder head tins where the side screws go. Grab it with a pair of pliers and pull straight up, do it for the left and right sides, then see if the shroud fits better. _________________ *ASE Recertified Master Automotive Tech*
1984 Mexican Beetle
2013 Chevrolet Volt DD
2005 Pontiac Montana SV6 (the loser cruiser)
Joined: September 03, 2009 Posts: 694 Location: Maryland
Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 2:44 pm Post subject:
emu88 wrote:
Paul Windisch wrote:
It is normal. As long as you can still turn it, even with a wrench, it's ok.
Thanks.
Now I am trying to line up those stupid little air things with the holes in the rear tin, they just WONT line up. Both are about 45 degrees out and it is physically imposible to move them more than I have. So annoying to be held up by such piddly little things. WHY WONT THEY LINE UP!!!
edit
Aslo the damn fan shroud rocks back and forth when I push it all the way down, as if the centre of it is pivoting on the case. Also makes NO sense whatsoever. Why don't things just work, and if they insist on not working why on earth is it always a problem that makes no sense whatsoever, as if my shroud changed its dimensions overnight!
Something is definitely messed up there. Not sure what. Do you have the short little tubes that fit into the heat collectors before the hose from the fan attaches? Do you have the rubber seals that go around the hoses where they pass through the tin? Sometimes a picture helps. Here's mine without the breast tin...
And here it is installed. Notice the seals around the hoses where they pass through the tins.
_________________ 1971 Super Beetle - Daily Driver
Solex H30/31 & 034 distributor (yeah, I know)
Stock thermostat & flaps
Stock air cleaner and emissions equipment
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 8166 Location: Central Morris County, NJ
Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 3:33 pm Post subject:
Those tins float around on the muffler, they are a ratty design really. Loosen the clamps to the heater box and gently tap it with a hammer, use a dull screwdriver and walk it around the pipes a little. You may be surprised how close it comes.
Don't expect it to be perfect. On mine I had to deform the opening slightly to get the short pipe in. All is fine after doing so, it works great! It is just a problem with the shoddy replacement parts available. Glad to see that it isn't a problem unique to the USA!!
Joined: May 20, 2009 Posts: 1484 Location: Antalya, Turkey
Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 11:56 pm Post subject:
I have the shoer tubes and also the rubber seals. Infact I bought the old and new kind seals and tried to use the older fatter ones UNDER the tin to try and connect the short tube to the air collectors. I struggled with this for hours upon hours yesterday using hammers and screwdrivers as suggested, but I got nowhere. They simply will not physically move beyond a point. Left one particularly. I can get it to line up OK, but then the tube that meets the exchangers is totaly off. Crazy!
Joined: September 02, 2009 Posts: 2257 Location: Fraser, Michigan
Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 4:27 am Post subject:
The grey outer casing on the heat exchangers moves a little bit, too. Once you get the tops of the collectors lined up as best as you can with the holes in the rear tin, try shifting the sheet metal casing of the heat exchanger a little so the clamps will line up. It may take some finessing, but you'll get it eventually! Hang in there... _________________ *ASE Recertified Master Automotive Tech*
1984 Mexican Beetle
2013 Chevrolet Volt DD
2005 Pontiac Montana SV6 (the loser cruiser)
Joined: May 20, 2009 Posts: 1484 Location: Antalya, Turkey
Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 5:26 am Post subject:
Paul Windisch wrote:
The grey outer casing on the heat exchangers moves a little bit, too. Once you get the tops of the collectors lined up as best as you can with the holes in the rear tin, try shifting the sheet metal casing of the heat exchanger a little so the clamps will line up. It may take some finessing, but you'll get it eventually! Hang in there...
Well, yes I noticed the outer shell of the exchangers move too, but even with that I can't line them up. I can't believe I am that retarded that 12 hours isn't enough to figure there is something wrong here. Still, I'll give it a go again!!
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