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SAXOMAT Automatic Clutch 1961-1967 - NOT Autostick Shift
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AlanInMass54
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GüteAndTite have you gotten this system operational in your car yet? Curious as to what it drives like!
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glutamodo Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GüteAndTite wrote:
glutamodo wrote:
I like how he goes all out to get it restored, but then installs split axle boots with the seam straight up... Rolling Eyes
I'm sure some people choose the ability to change the boots without pulling the engine, and transmission and then removing axle tubes-complete pain in the ass for a driver


No, no, I didn't mean the choice of split boots. No problem with that! I meant the incorrect installation angle of those boots. Factory spec is for the seam in the split boots to be horizontal to the rear. I'll go a little above horizontal, but putting the seam straight up, puts a lot of stress on that joining, stretching it with every bump.

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GüteAndTite
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AlanInMass54 wrote:
GüteAndTite have you gotten this system operational in your car yet? Curious as to what it drives like!


no, not yet, all the ducks are in a row except mounting the saxomat flywheel to the 36hp engine for my car. I didnt want to mount the current flywheel i have as i would like the option of putting it on a 40hp motor as intended, or maybe a 1600 big bore motor as well at a later date.

but I have a second saxomat flywheel as pictured before that is NOS on the way in the mail to me now. now that I will have 2 flywheels, i can modify one and leave one unmolested in my garage for the 40hp. I will be machining the snout of the flywheel to 36hp specs and also be having some welding done to it prior to welding to add material needed in one spot. I will also be welding up the 40hp crank dowel pin holes on the flywheel and redrilling it with an 8 dowel pattern as on the 36hp crank on my motor. once this welding, machining and drilling is done, i should be able to finally bolt 36hp engine with saxomat clutch to my split case trans and starter and drive the chassis around the neighborhood, followed by droping the body back on.

one thing i am toying around with is this idea.

i could just leave the car as a saxomat clutch with the 2 pedal saxomat pedal assembly (brake and gas) or I could omit the 2 pedal saxomat pedal assembly and use the regular manual clutch stock 3 pedal -pedal assembly. the saxomat linkage comes out from the throw out shaft horzontal, well almost (maybe at 10-15 degress) Im thinking about taking a stock throw out clutch cable arm and cutting off the part that goes on the shaft normally and welding it to the top of the saxomat one. this would allow the saxomat to operate as normal, but when the car was going, i could push the clutch pedal in between 2-3-4 gears or also while in a gear to coast,etc. this is just an idea that would give me more options in controlling the car as i choose.
i still could not shift the car into 1st as im using a non synchro 1st gear split case (which may be an issue with the freewheel assembly disconnecting-notsure) , also due to the saxomat starting clutch , even if i declutch with the pedal, i will still have to rev the motor to engage the starting clutch to go, which could be problematic- lots of variables to think about. who knows, i may get this set up in my car and be promptly listing it for sale for 2500.00. (2 flywheels, 1 freewheel, 10 weights, 3 clutches, 3 pressure plates, 3 sintered starting clutches, vacuum tank, lines, brackets, vacuum solenoid, and servo switch.

another issue, is my motor will be running dual carbs, i could just put a vacuum port off of one intake on the 3-4 side of the motor. but i think it may be best for both adequate vacuum to build as well as smoother carb syncing if i make a balance tube between both intake manifolds. Im using the rethwish setup, and it has a spot to put a balance tube- will probably use copper pipe and pound it in and solder fit it.
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PUNCTUATION CHANGES THE WORLD: "I need to help my uncle, Jack, off a horse" is way better than, "I need to help my uncle jack off a horse"
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GüteAndTite
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bally wrote:
I suspect you are right that mine should be ok at 4mm as the two flywheel surfaces were a little scored so have had the faces skimmed smooth again. I haven't tried assembling it and spinning it as I've been concentrating on why I had no end float. I'm keen to see that happening so I'll give it a go when I get some time.

I'm not going to be on the road any time soon so I suspect you'll be leading the way on that one - keep us posted!

Cheers,

Dave


Hey Dave, any update on your saxomat setup in the car and running? what did you have to do in the end to get your flywheel machined/main seal different/etc to finally mount your flywheel to your 36hp motor?
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=426481
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=462533
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=457944&highlight=air+conditioning

PUNCTUATION CHANGES THE WORLD: "I need to help my uncle, Jack, off a horse" is way better than, "I need to help my uncle jack off a horse"
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bally
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GüteAndTite wrote:
bally wrote:
I suspect you are right that mine should be ok at 4mm as the two flywheel surfaces were a little scored so have had the faces skimmed smooth again. I haven't tried assembling it and spinning it as I've been concentrating on why I had no end float. I'm keen to see that happening so I'll give it a go when I get some time.

I'm not going to be on the road any time soon so I suspect you'll be leading the way on that one - keep us posted!

Cheers,

Dave


Hey Dave, any update on your saxomat setup in the car and running? what did you have to do in the end to get your flywheel machined/main seal different/etc to finally mount your flywheel to your 36hp motor?


No progress yet - I hope to get to it next year.

The website you linked to is very informative - thank you Smile

A couple of points on what you are proposing above:-

the saxomat requires two vacuum take offs; one from the carb and one form the manifold. I am planning on using the Okrasa manifold balance pipe for the manifold vacuum take off but have not considered a balance pipe for the carbs - I just hadn't considered that...

I have been recommended to use a full syncro box.

Well done on scoring another good part - I am still on the lookout for a good starting clutch...

Cheers,

Dave
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GüteAndTite
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Gonna mount both of these badges above the right snowflake taillight like beetles in Canada.

I have seen pictures of both mounted in 2 places: above the right taillight and on the decklid. I can't find the pictures of other cars on my hard drive but decided the decklid mounting looks too 70's for my taste.

I do however need to pick which way to mount the badges. Options are:
Pic 1 with saxomat above vw emblem

Pic 2 with saxomat below vw emblem

Which way should I mount them?
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=426481
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=462533
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=457944&highlight=air+conditioning

PUNCTUATION CHANGES THE WORLD: "I need to help my uncle, Jack, off a horse" is way better than, "I need to help my uncle jack off a horse"


Last edited by GüteAndTite on Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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GüteAndTite
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GüteAndTite wrote:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Gonna mount both of these badges above the right snowflake taillight like beetles in Canada.

I have seen pictures of both mounted in 2 places: above the right taillight and on the decklid. I can't find the pictures of other cars on my hard drive but decided the decklid mounting looks too 70's for my taste.

I do however need to pick which way to mount the badges. Options are:
Pic 1 with saxomat above vw emblem

Pic 2 with saxomat below vw emblem

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Which way should I mount them? any opinions guys?
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=457944&highlight=air+conditioning

PUNCTUATION CHANGES THE WORLD: "I need to help my uncle, Jack, off a horse" is way better than, "I need to help my uncle jack off a horse"
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GüteAndTite
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone have an opinion?
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PUNCTUATION CHANGES THE WORLD: "I need to help my uncle, Jack, off a horse" is way better than, "I need to help my uncle jack off a horse"
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bally
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would go with the penultimate one: rear wing VW over Saxomat.

Just my opinion.

Dave
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GüteAndTite
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bally wrote:
I would go with the penultimate one: rear wing VW over Saxomat.

Just my opinion.

Dave


penultimate?

so the right rear fender above the taillight with volkswagen above and saxomat below? thats wear im leaning towards as the more i look at it volkswagen above looks more natural and with the emblems on the decklid it looks kind of gaudy. the fender is much more inline with a beetle, understated and simple.
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=426481
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=457944&highlight=air+conditioning

PUNCTUATION CHANGES THE WORLD: "I need to help my uncle, Jack, off a horse" is way better than, "I need to help my uncle jack off a horse"
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AlanInMass54
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Volkswagen on top and Sax O Mat on the bottom looks good! You've got some most excellent cars, between the Sax O Mat and the A/C systems! Someday I'd like an early 60's Bug too, and put cool stuff like this in it! Very Happy
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GüteAndTite
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 3:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AlanInMass54 wrote:
The Volkswagen on top and Sax O Mat on the bottom looks good! You've got some most excellent cars, between the Sax O Mat and the A/C systems! Someday I'd like an early 60's Bug too, and put cool stuff like this in it! Very Happy


Thank you! The a/c, record player, Eberspacher heater, and saxomat set up are all in the same car- my 58 convertible. I have more toys for my other 2 cars.
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PUNCTUATION CHANGES THE WORLD: "I need to help my uncle, Jack, off a horse" is way better than, "I need to help my uncle jack off a horse"
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bally
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 1:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GüteAndTite wrote:
bally wrote:
I would go with the penultimate one: rear wing VW over Saxomat.

Just my opinion.

Dave


penultimate?

so the right rear fender above the taillight with volkswagen above and saxomat below? thats wear im leaning towards as the more i look at it volkswagen above looks more natural and with the emblems on the decklid it looks kind of gaudy. the fender is much more inline with a beetle, understated and simple.


Correct assumption.

penultimate
pɪˈnʌltɪmət/
adjective
1.
last but one in a series of things; second last.
"the penultimate chapter of the book"

Dave
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GüteAndTite
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Dave,
When you had your flywheel machined, did it just rely on the gland nut and dowel pins to keep it centered on the crankshaft, or did you actually have it machined with the proper stepped ridge so it basically slip fits the flywheel and can't move about it if say all the dowel pins and gland nut where out, it could only spin on center? It seems as thought the gland but and dowel pins would eventually wobble and cause the flywheel to loosen and damage things. I'm guessing if that were the case, welding to build up material and then machining it on a lathe to fit the crank would be best , or fitting a custom centering ring. The way this should fit is similar to modern "Hubcentric" wheels and hubs.

I'm just wondering if I should worry about this, or say F it and rarely on just the dowel pins and gland nut to center it. ...
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PUNCTUATION CHANGES THE WORLD: "I need to help my uncle, Jack, off a horse" is way better than, "I need to help my uncle jack off a horse"
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bally
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The work has yet to be finished on my flywheel but I don't think the guys working on it had considered that - it sounds like something that maybe should be considered...

Dave
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GüteAndTite
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

im enjoying christmas break with the family, but im itching to get back home and pull the stock flywheel off my 36hp motor so I can look at things and take measurements off of it and then head to a machine shop to get it modified to fit the 36hp. i should definately be doing this sometime this weekend. getting really excited now that I have this extra flywheel to machine.
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=426481
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=462533
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=457944&highlight=air+conditioning

PUNCTUATION CHANGES THE WORLD: "I need to help my uncle, Jack, off a horse" is way better than, "I need to help my uncle jack off a horse"
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bally wrote:

Here’s a quick sketch of the measurements I took:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Face A mates against Face C and Face B should clear Face D.

So, in my mind, the difference between Face A and B should be the same for both the Saxomat and the flywheel. A little should be taken off the front edge of the Saxomat (approx 0.4mm) and the shoulder (to Face B from the front edge) should be turned down until that distance is 13mm. Doing this will enable me to set the end float with no fouling.

Am I making the right noises here?

Cheers,

Dave


Good news that you'll be getting some machining done soon Brett - it will be interesting to see what work you do compared to my proposals on page 6 (extract above).

Good luck and keep us posted.

Cheers,

Dave
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GüteAndTite
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Dave,
So i did a bunch of measuring on my saxomat flywheel, a standard 40hp flywheel and a 36hp flywheel. i figured out besides cutting out and welding in a 36hp center (which very well sounds like a super easy option, this is the list of mods that need to happen to allow the saxomat flywheel to bolt to the 36hp crank. I will also be 8-doweling the flywheel.

MACHINING , WELDING AND DRILLING STEPS TO FIT SAXOMAT FLYWHEEL TO A 36HP MOTOR:

1-BUILD UP INNER SNOUT FLANGE 4.5MM HIGH AND MACHINE TO 48.5 MM DIAMETER.

2-WELD HOLES SHUT FOR 40HP DOWEL PINS AND MACHINE FLAT WELDS

3-CUT DOWN OUTTER SNOUT FLANGE BY 4.75 MM

4-CUT OUTER DIAMETER OF SNOUT DOWN FROM 70MM TO A 60MM DIAMETER

5-DRILL 36HP DOWEL HOLES (8 DOWEL IF PREFFERED )

BOLT UP TO 36HP CRANK ON ENGINE AND CHECK FOR PROPER FLYWHEEL ENDPLAY AND ADJUST AS NECESSARY WITH PROPER SHIMS (TRY LAST TRIUMPH FOR VARIOUS SIZES) , USE 36HP MAIN SEAL AND SAXOMAT GLANDNUT.


PICS SOON TO FOLLOW!
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PUNCTUATION CHANGES THE WORLD: "I need to help my uncle, Jack, off a horse" is way better than, "I need to help my uncle jack off a horse"
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 1:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So what happened to this?
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

caleb0101 wrote:
So what happened to this?


Machining flywheel is my hold up! Need to find a machine shop locally that can handle this
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PUNCTUATION CHANGES THE WORLD: "I need to help my uncle, Jack, off a horse" is way better than, "I need to help my uncle jack off a horse"
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